Help planning communications for a new home

[ariznaf]

We are going to start building a new home, with garden and garage.

We are yet dealing with plans and the arquitect.

I would like advice on how to distribute the home network, where to put de communication cabinet and things like that (not selecting devices yet).

I am planning to have three virutal networks, one for internet and local access of the family, one for iot devices isolated from internet and one for guests with just internet access.
There would be wifi access and lan gigabit points.

I woul like to integrate somehow and to some extent TV signal and satellite.

I have thought of using these devices:

• ISP proivded router/device for internet access, just for that and directly connected to the main router.

• Main router running openwrt with no wifi and at least two ethernet ports, one for wan access and one for lan.

• A switch with at least 16 ports, some of them with POE (for connecting security cameras).
  I don't need a fully managed switch, but it should be capable of supporting VLANS and tag/untag traffic from its ports.
  I think it is not neccesary to run openwrt in the switch (there seems there are not so meany switches that can run openwrt).

• 2 AP for wifi access at the interior of the home. Again I think it is not mandatory to be able to run openwrt on them as they are just providing wifi access and all the work would be done by the router.

• 1 AP for exterior (garden).

• Several not expensive security cameras (I plan to connect them wired and using POe).

• Other iot devices connected to the iot vlan.

First thing I have to decide is where to put the communication cabinet where all lan wired will arrive and the ISP wan access.

In the home there will be a room for ironing, boiler and probably the electricity distribution box.
May be there should be installed the communications cabinet.
But I don't know if there is going to be enough room and it won't be so accesible.

Other place could be in a little room next to the living room that will have a desk with the computer.

What will be the advantages and disadvantages of both locations?

Other point to decide is what to include in the cabinet.

I think there should be:

• The ISP router or internet access.

• The main router.

• A distribution panel.

• The switch.

• A IOT controller that manages the cameras and iot devices running openhab or similar software.

Problably the satellite and ground TV antenna should arrive there too, and distribute the tv cable from there.

It would be nice to put there a TV sintonizer in the future too to be able to watch tv from a computer or device.

In the computer room or in the living room there would be an AP to provide wifi access for that part of the home.

It is possible to put the router outside of the communication cabinet and put it in the computer room , and include wifi access in the router.
I would need to ethernet links in that room one for connecting the router to the ISP router and another to connect to the switch.
But I think it would be more cumbersome and error prone.
It will make the router more accessible for inspection or trouble shooting, and let you use lots of routers with integrated wifi.

What do you think? Would it be better to separate the router from wifi access and put the router in the cabinet?

Another question is where to better put the wifi access points.

One would be near the living room and another one in the corridor to the rooms, near the main room.

But would it be better to put them in the ceiling or it is ok to put it in a wall?

And the last one is the AP for the garden to get access in the exterior.
What things should I have into account to install an AP there?

This is a preliminary plan of the home.

UPDATED:

This is the current proposal of the comm outlets

[fodiator]

Depending on the size, consider using enterprise like ceiling units and a separate location for network gear. Don’t save on the ethernet cables used

[ariznaf]

Thanks.
I have added a preliminary plan, kitchen and computer room may be will change position, but it gives an idea of distribution and size.

I am with you, I am planning to put more ethernet points tan needed.
At least there would be the plastic tubes for them, later I will add the ethernet cable, but you cannot easily add a ethernet point where there is no one.

I plan to use plastic tubes capable of holding at least two ethernet cables insede.

In the rooms one point in each, one or two in the garage, two in the main room and two in the living room and one in the kitchen.

in the exterior I plan to put one in the access to the site, one at the entry and one at the back at least but may be I will add one for each side to be able to put the cameras where needed, and that would be powered via POe.

[mercygroundabyss]

What I’ve learned from nearly three years of enterprise Wi-Fi at home

The Ars Technica semi-scientific guide to Wi-Fi Access Point placement

[slh]

I know parts of this have been mentioned already, but still…

Make sure to put cat-7 and ethernet ports into the walls:

• at least one (two to each ethernet outlet makes sense) each on opposite walls
• plus two to each place where you're planning a TV set or a desk/ computer place (don't forget the childrens' room(s))
• plus places for wall/ ceiling APs and their ethernet cables
• put an extra ethernet cable/ outlet to the places where you'd have 'traditonally' placed a (desk-) phone, at least one on each storey, regardless if you 'need' it or not (DECT), it just retains your options.
• as you already mentioned security cameras, make sure to put ethernet everywhere to gain a 360° view around your house and account for bushes and trees to cover some views (more cameras than initially considered needed)
• think about the garage (at least 2* ethernet), be it for AP coverage/ distribution into the garden or to hook up IoT stuff for the garage door.
• at least 2* ethernet ports to the boiler room (modern web-based heating controls, etc.), also use cat-7 cable for the outdoor temperature sensor and the heating control panels (better than needed, but flexible enough for the future)
• think about solar panels, hot water storage, heat pumps, etc. their controls might want ethernet (if not now, then in the future).
• think about the doorbell (bell plus camera, 2* ethernet cables might be sensible, plus one where the gong is going to be (think one per storey again, think about the garden))
• think about smarthome now and what that means in terms of smart buttons, sensors, controlled lamps/ power outlets, etc. (and pretty much disregard the idea <-- if you thought the above were excessive, smarthome will be for sure)

@ariznaf

I woul like to integrate somehow and to some extent TV signal and satellite.

At the moment that still (mostly) means 2* coax cables and 2* (4* does make sense) ethernet cables per TV set.

@ariznaf

ISP proivded router/device for internet access, just for that and directly connected to the main router.

I don't see a reason for an ISP router, but you will have to split:

• 'modem' (xDSL/ cable/ ftth GPON ONT, etc. pp.), this you may get from the ISP - just make sure that it's 'just' a modem - and doesn't act as a router in itself.
• (OpenWrt-) router (your WAN IP should terminate here).
• patch panel
• (smart-)managed switch (L2 or better)
• something for the phones (these days typically SIP --> DECT, e.g. gigaset N510 pro or similar)

Make sure to cover all rooms (including the floors for wall mounted APs)/ storeys

Keep spare conduits, things will change over the next 30-50 years.

At the moment, cat-7 cables and cat-6 outlets makes sense - I'm not seeing in-house fibre in consumer/ prosumer devices so far.

Consider what makes more sense for your situation, all cables coming to a single patch panel/ switch or segregating by storey (in the later case, account for two ethernet cables to each switch, for link-aggregation).

Yes, the above might look excessive - diverge as needed for your environment, but at least give it a serious thought. Wireless is great for mobile devices, but even high-end mesh systems don't like wireless backhauls that much; at least have enough (empty) conduits with pull strings (keep in mind that neither cat-7 nor fibre don't like 'pulling' that much; avoid tight corners).

The switches, routers, phone systems are easy (and comparatively cheap) to replace later on, no need for 52-port switches with PoE now, just realistically account for your current needs (wired stations) times 1.5 or 2 (in your current planning phase, 2 - if you'd redevelop/ remodel an existing house with its 'known' electronic interior it's easier to estimate with a lower safety margin), just make sure to retain enough mounting space.

For your communication cabinet(s), consider 19" rack width and enough vertical space to add a NAS, small server, switch, patch panel, etc.) Keep in mind that ventilation might be needed and that its contents may be noisy (larger PoE switches do have loud fans), avoid places with high humidity or dust (stay away from the kitchen (greasy vapors), washing machine or dryer and temperatures (e.g. conservatory or a small (normal) room with south facing windows can heat up considerably)).

With energy getting more and more expensive, consider the always-on energy consumption. A plethora of small desktop switches forgotten behind the TVs/ computer desks quickly costs more in electricity than laying enough passive ethernet ports now - no need to hook them all up at your main switch immediately.

[moeller0]

@ariznaf

At least there would be the plastic tubes for them, later I will add the ethernet cable, but you cannot easily add a ethernet point where there is no one.

IMHO that is the single best way to future proof things. I would also immwdiately put some pulking wire or thin rope into the tubes and dimension them to allow at the very least two full sized cables. Make sure to use as large radii for direction changes as possible to allow easier pulling and potentially a switch to fiber in the far future.

Unlike @slh I would be somewhat less concerned about using small consumer switches to expand the number of ethernet ports per room, or even a consumer WiFi router under OpenWrt configured as 'dumb AP' to combine AP and port extension if needed.
I would also weigh the pros and cons for 'enterprise' class APs carefully over cheaper consumer class devices; the biggest difference I expect would be ease of management, but how often does one do that?

[ariznaf]

Thank you @mercygroundabyss for the links.
I have read them, and will reread as the are interesting.

I don't want such a complicated configuration, but I need to plan for the future and get a flexible infrastructure.

It is interesting what it says about AP locations, but it does not clarify how to plan the locations correctly or how to meaure.

I tried to follow that guide with the location of my AP in the scheme.
One of them would cover the bedrooms, son it is in the corridor more or less in the middle of the rooms. Other the kitchen, computer room, entry and living room.
I have not put it in the middle of the living room but more close to the entry and computer room.

The other one the backyard.

The problem may be the main room. I would like it to have a good wifi coverage, but an AP just for it seems over sized.
It will get coverage from the exterior wifi, but will allway get signal from the bedrooms AP and from the living room.
Can that be a problem?

It does seem not easy to plan it carefully and to decide the correct power emission.
Which tools can I use to plan that?

The house won't be in a crowded area, it will have only two near houses, so the wifi spectrum should not be a problem. I think I will have the three main 2.4 GHz channels (1,6 and 11) quite free of interference, and so the 5 GHz channels.

@slh thank you for your response.

First of all I have to clarify that it will be a second residence (but probably in the future we wil use it as our main residence).
Our children have grown up so the rooms won't be so used, just on holidays, no need to study there.

I don't trust wifi either, I plan to use enough ethernet cable and distribute it well all over the home.
I will use cat 7 cabling, but probably outlets would be cat 6.

But what I don't want my budget in communications go rocket high, so probably I won't put cable in every outlet.

There are two parts in cabling (at least here in Europe where all cabling is made through plastic tubes).

1. Throwing the plastic tubes that connect each place with the communication cabinet.
2. Pulling the real cat7 cable and ethernet outlets and connecting them to the patch pannel in the cabinet.

I think step 1 would be almost as expensive (or even more) that second step.
But you cannot save too much there as it can be only done once, If you need later to add one location it would be too expensive or an awfull cable would be seen all over the place.

If you put too much locations it will be a mess of tubes all over the walls and the cabinet will be too crowded. You need other tubes for TV and electric outlets, so not an easy decision.

What I think is correct is to use a bigger tube in order to let you pass two cables through it, as the price will be about the same and that will let you add a second ethernet point using the same space (or add a phone close to the ethernet position).

To the main places (computer desk, main room, living tv) I will add two ethernet outlets from and two cables in the first moment.
To the rest of the home I have to evaluate the cost of using two outlets and cables. That can be added later even if it is not so easy to do, but it is doable by yourshelf with some help.

I will add coaxial cabling for the tv in the living room and main room, and probably kitchen, not sure to put it in the rooms.

But why two cables?

I am not planning to use paid TV or satallite or cable tv (in that case I will use internet TV for paid services).
So even if I use a ground antenna and a parabolic antenna I had thought signal could be mixed in the device that distributes signal. Am I wrong?

May be I can add a tv sintonizer to digitize signa, program recordings, and stream it over ethernet. Two channels will be more than enough.

With all the cabling you are advicing to add, may be it is too much to concentrate it in a single point (comm cabinet).
May be it will be better to distribute it in two places.
One in the ironing room and one in the computer room.
A switch in each of them.
Main router and isp connection in the computer room, with ethernet from living room, kitchen, computer room, tv coax cabling, external ethernet and back rooms in the ironing.

But I don't know how that can be done.
If I use separate swiches, every switch has to be connected to the main router with a single cable, so all computers in that place will share the 1 GBit connection to the main router.

Won't that be a bottleneck and much less efficient that a single switch?

I haven't used more than one switch previously.

[ariznaf]

Thanks that is my idea, not to save too much in tubing, and put more than needed, in every place you can reasonably think you could need a connection in the future (everywhere but in the batrooms).

As it will be almost the same price to put a thin tube than a thicker one, I will use tubes that would let you easily pass two ethernet cables in them.
Which diameter is recommended?
Which is the minimum radius in 'corners' recommended for the tubing?

That has to be done during construction and cannot be easily modified later.

Too few and you have a big problem to add a device where you want.

But too much tubing and may be the budget goes too high and you will have problems to distribute all the tubing.
Communication tubing will compete with electrical tubing and coax cabling for TV.

I don't think I will need enterprise grade switches either.

I will need good switches with POE (at least one of them) not fully managed, but I will need them to support VLANs and tagging/untagging.

I don't think that they need to run openWRT (it would be great if there are switches with good price that can, as the interface will be similar to the one in the router and I trust openWRT).

Tha same with AP, I need good and stable dumb wifi6 AP, enough with ac no real need for ax.

If the run openwrt great, but no real need for it.

I will try to get a flexible system but to keep it as simple as possible.

In the future I can add complexity or new devices, if need arises, and it will be easy if the base cabling is well designed.

[ariznaf]

Any idea about the tube diameter needed for two cat7 cables inside and the minimum curvature radius?

And how to connect both switches to the main router with maximum performance?

If I connect them with 1 GB ethernet to the router, devices from one switch won't be able to simultaniously communicate at maximum speed, they will share the 1GB cable,. If all devices are in the same switch any device can connect simultaniously with other device ad maximum speed.

[fogmachine]

I once did this for someone's new home (3 stories, ~6k sq ft) - a few notes:

They didn't want visible APs so we put small shelves high in closets (bedrooms and foyer) with power sockets and Cat 6 runs. Ended up with one AP per floor and coverage was great except in a few corners. Didn't need the power (used PoE) but it's there for future-proofing.

Used a spare AP in early phase construction for site surveys - put it in a candidate location, walk around checking signal strength. This helped nail final placement.

Followed Ars Technica's advice and turned down 2.4GHz xmit power to promote 5GHz use. This was huge for high bandwidth throughout the home. Remember - roaming is initiated by the client, not the server.

Ran Cat6 to the "office" but didn't use it. Also ran Cat6 TV everywhere coax (for DirecTV) went to get ready for streaming.

Found fan-less GbE switches (32-port layer3 and 8-port POE) that eliminated noise and moving parts. They will last forever.

Did not bother with VLANs, multiple SSIDs, local DNS, etc. We weren't worried about neighbors war drivers, or other casual users breaking in. Eventually no management server besides a bog-standard SOHO router. Simple meant no IT issues and much greater overall reliability.

All networking gear (except APs) was in a single centralized rack in a mechanical room. Room was well ventilated. Rack also held centralized audio amplifiers, home automation servers and other network-connected devices.

Bought a Brother USB label printer early in the project. Godsend.

[ariznaf]

I am planning the connection points... I am trying to reduce some of them daisy-chaning them so that two or them can join before going to the comm cabinet (as each tube will fit two ethernet cables).

But even so, there would be about 20 or 22 tubes coming to the comm cabinet just for ethernet comm.
You have to add electrical panels and TV coax cables.

Would that be too much?

Ideas about how to identify all that to get it organized to the future will be wellcome

A label printer?
And labels hanging from the cords that would be used in the future to introduce the ethernet cable?

[moeller0]

@ariznaf

But even so, there would be about 20 or 22 tubes coming to the comm cabinet just for ethernet comm.

That would make it two tubes per room, no? Tube-wise that seems pretty future-proof, but for the initial deployment, maybe a single tube per room might suffice?

You could also terminate the individual tubes to the hallway and use fewer but bigger tubes to the comm cabinet, or even an accessible cable duct mounted below the ceiling to move the cables from the rooms to the cabinet? Keep in mind that pulling cables through tubes gets easier the shorter the tube is.

[ariznaf]

Well that is less than one per room, as it includes external ethernet points for cameras, the main entry door (with two tube, or 4 ethernet points) to install camera and bell and comm system..

There are only 3 rooms with 2 or more tubes, the mair room, the bigger room and living room.

It seems too much for initial deployment, but you have to take into account that I am only planing the tubes: places where ethernet access may be needed in future. Each tube can take up to two ethernet connections.

Probably I won't run real cable in all the tubes at initial deployment, just one for room and some in external places.

There will be false ceiling in most of the house, wo it will help.

I will put the schema here (once I can draw it).

May be that is iss better idea to join some of the tubes in one thiker tube.

Some of the point would be in the ceiling (wifi access points), some in the wall but high in it.
And yes some in the wall but at the botton (in this case may be it is better idea to pass them first in to a box above it, in the vertical of its place).

[ariznaf]

I have made some progress with planing the house.

This is my first proposal, feel free to comment about it.

I have designed some outlets in the ceiling, some high in the walls and some in low position.
Every outlet will be 2xEthernet cat 6A

There would be at least 2 outlets more in the main entry (for a security camera and telecom).

What I want to design now is the backbone cabling.
I am thinking of using distributors/concentrators to reduce cable run and get more flexebility.

Each one would go direct to the rack comm and have 6 or 8 eth cables.
In each distributor there will be something like a patch (passive) panel for 6 or 8 cables.

Something like this:

But may be it will be better to install something like this

but with reduced size, without the rack support.

Or just put a female connector in the cable coming from the rack with no support, like this.

I think that for a house where you won't be changing distribution to often it will be enough.

That woul reduce cable runs and will be more flexible, as not all the cabling will be install from the beginning, many of the outlets would not have something connected.

When you want to install a new point in one outlet you only would have to run the cable to its distributor and connect there.

Distributors will be fully cabled to the rack with 6 or 8 cables each, and so it will be easy to add some cabling.

[mk24]

Punched down connections are more reliable than crimped especially with high-power PoE. The concept with structured wiring is that the in-wall cables and patch panel or wall outlet are installed once. Changes to functionality are accomplished by moving patch cords.

Try to locate APs inside the rooms where users require the fastest speeds. Any signal that spills out to other areas is bonus.

[ariznaf]

Thank you I will take that into account.

In the rack there would be a patch panel and if punched connections (lie the first patch pannel I have put) are better I will use that there.

But there will be intermediate distribution places in order to get more flesibility and reduce the number of cables that arrive to the rack.

I have been working a distribudion like these

That distribudion panels would be only small boxes in the ceiling or up in the wall.
There won't be to much place.
Would it be too problematic to put there just a female connector to connect male connector coming from outlets?

I think of using tubes for 6 or 8 ethernte cables in these "backbones".

Would 8 be too much for running a tube from distributors (yellow patches) to the rack?

For the entry and outside I would use one tube with intermediate distribution places (black in the drawing).

Is it possible to put them in the undergorund in an isolated box?

I won't use all that access points (green) just two, one in the saloon and one the the corridor.

And another one in the exterior, in the porsche, near the principal room.

I have put other point in the corridor because I don't know the best point to locate it.

May be I convert that in the aisle for two high in the wall that could be used more easily for iot devices.