Are there any plans for a new stable (24.x) release?

For Developers
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Hi all,

Based on some feedback I got on this forum I decided to get a BananaPi RP4 for a 10Gbps fireware/router. However support for it, and many other newer devices, is only available in snapshots. At the time I wasn't too concerned, because I mistakenly assumed there'd be a new stable release every 6 months or so, like other platforms.

The last stable 23.5 (May) was released October 2023 and I've been searching everywhere I could to find mention of any 24.x plans. There are plenty of page in the wiki W.R.T. 23.x release planning and goals, but no mention (that I could find) of when we can expect the next stable release, and under what conditions. Its entirely possible my search skils have let me down.

I don't need a new stable release to be a big bang of new features, capabilities, new kernel or such. I (and I assume) others just need stable images for new hardware that don't put you on an update treadmil of snapshot. For example I currently can't install wireguard because, as I found out, kernel modules for snapshots can only be got on the day of the snapshot, and many other pains of running snapshot...

I realise this is a volunteer effort, so I would argue to make stable releases smaller leaps that require less effort and QA. - or have a way to add new hardward to existing stable releases.

I am competent enough to work with snapshots, but I hope you can understand I don't really want to replace my current internet router with something running an OpenWRT snapshot build. My current device is a PCengine's APU system, running Debian. With moving to OpenWrt I wanted to reduce how much tinkering it takes to keep things to running. I've had a lot of fire and forget succes with running openWrt on Netgear devices. As a father I don't have the time that I once did.

Trying to get this clarification, and to know if I made the correct decision. This is my last hope attempt, before giving up and putting Debian on the BananaPi. I am a big fan of OpenWrt all my 1Gbps Netgear stuff (mostly Wifi AP) is running it. and having my core routers run it too seemed like the way to go.

Thank you for your time and efforts in this project. I hope I did not miss some 24.x announcement somewhere =)

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What other platforms have stable releases every 6month?

At best we have one stable release once a year but that is not a guarantee. For example when DSA was implemented it took about two years.

The release status as of today is that it was decided during the implementation of kernel 6.1 that instead kernel 6.6 was to be used instead and that isn’t finished yet.

But still, there is not really any real problems running main snapshot if you need to. The only thing to know is that you will have to manually install luci through serial or ssh.

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Thank you for the response! I guess I wasn't clear, I wasn't equating a stable release with a major release, point releases are stable too - they're not development releases. As such most distros I know have point releases that often add hardware support.

I wish it were straight foward to just use snapshot. I am not concerned about luci not being installed, that is super easy to fix. This is not however:

snapshots are built daily, and that sets time limits to installing new packages with opkg. Due to kernel version checksums, you can only install “kmod” kernel modules and other kernel version dependent modules from the exactly same snapshot build. So, a few hours after flashing the firmware you may not be able to install new modules with opkg any more (as the next snapshot has been built into the download repo and has different checksums). See below for package availability time limits.

from https://openwrt.org/releases/snapshot - the time limits listed are all too short for me, as a substitue for a stable install.

Anything I try to install now, or in the future (that depends on a kmod) e.g. WireGuard, fails - and that to me feels like a sword hanging over my head. Maybe, at some future time, I want to set something up - and then find I don't have the kmod for it.

For the team consider this friendly feedback, useful or not I don't know.

For me I am too constrained with too little clarity on the future to stay on snapshot. There is also the issue of needing to keep abrest more keenly of snapshot issues, more so than one would with stable.

I'll have to see if 1) I can find a way live with snapshots, e.g. make a mirror copy in one day, so I have all packages available thereafter; or 2) Postpone migration until there is a stable release; or 3) Move back to Debian*

(*I have become a fan of NixOs, but I am not familar enough with it to make the leap on something that could cut my wife and child off from their streaming services)

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do look at the firmware selector tool
https://firmware-selector.openwrt.org/
you can go into custom & select the wanted packages
you can bring you snapshot up to the current build including current packages
there is also a package that helps you
luci-app-attendedsysupgrade
which will do alot for you

not as good but lessens the pain

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A new stable release takes place every couple of months (23.05.0, 23.05.2, 23.05.3 etc) - sometimes new devices get added in this cycle.

A new major release takes considerably more time due to porting targets to a new kernel - see https://github.com/openwrt/openwrt/issues/15192
After porting has finished another few months are needed to iron out bugs - I predict that next major release is in H1/2025

Sidenote: developers are also working on cool new features like

(some of these will become/are available in 23.x as well)

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Thanks all for the extra details.

Is there a way for me to track or understand if BPI-R4 (https://openwrt.org/inbox/toh/sinovoip/bananapi_bpi-r4) will be included in a future point release?

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If it's in snapshots now, it'll be part of next stable release.

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Just some 2 cent for some insider not a rant of some sort or complain just asserting the situation...

The main plan for the new release (my decision, not something we decided with the other member of the team... just a personal task i want to persuade) is to switch from OPKG to APK.

Problem is that APK 3.0 still lack main feature we require and APK devs are very busy so the switch project had an hard stop.... there is something experimental for the change but we still need some time...

There is also the switch to 6.6 as the main kernel but that will eventually happen...

Sooo this is the reason for taking lots of time for it... i honestly hope we can branch in the next few month to at least have something for the release of Openwrt One

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Kernel porting status 6.6 is looking promising!

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Given all the ongoing work on package management, wouldn’t it be an idea to implement official methods to:

  • determine packages installed over base image (e.g. to help users start again from scratch by adding requisite custom packages and flashing or flashing base image and then installing custom packages);

  • determine packages installed since last flash (helpful to keep things tidy e.g. if tried out a package and it brought in a bunch of dependencies and user no longer wants package and doesn’t entirely trust —autoremove to do the right thing so can check all the extra packages pulled in really were removed).

Right now there are scripts to determine the above, but it seems it’d be helpfully to officially support those things.

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The firmware selector and image builder provide the default packages list. I added those I require to the end. When building I simply copy/paste this packages list, hence a simple text. Is there really a need for a tool/script to manage a simple text?

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So take situation where I have installed a bunch of packages over the years and want or need to flash a new image and want to work out what packages I need to add to the builder to retain the functionality I presently have. How do I do that?

There are various hacks/scripts to get a list of installed packages beyond the base set. And same for since last flash. But they’re all a bit different.

See scripts here:

https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/installation/sysupgrade.packages

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ASU
https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/installation/attended.sysupgrade

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Isn't that for upgrading a firmware with pre-installed packages? What if one needs to start again from scratch? So e.g. with the RT3200 many users have had to do this because we need to flash using a new installer (see e.g. here) and start again - sysupgrade is not possible in this situation. Or what if you want to copy config A on router A to router B? That is, setup new firmware on router B based on the packages installed beyond base on router A?

There are a bunch of scripts to help with this situation:

image
image1060×2131 213 KB

https://openwrt.org/docs/guide-user/installation/sysupgrade.packages

But it seems to me that it would be nice to have a mechanism for listing such packages built in. Rather than having to use such a script.

I may well be missing something here.

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That's a terrible confession of a poorly managed router. Keep a record of what you do/add/delete/need. This way you can easily know the packages list, and build anytime. It's only a matter of a few text lines.

Example for a R6220

make image PROFILE="netgear_r6220" PACKAGES="-ppp -ppp-mod-pppoe luci luci-theme-material kmod-usb-net-rndis -luci-proto-ppp"

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I doubt @Lynx actually do that in real life, see it more like an example.

But still, we see just that over and over here on the forum, users installing a lot of things and making big setups.
And suddenly everything is gone and the user has no idea what has been done and installed historically.

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If AI is so good why don't we use it here....have the job done in the blink of an eye????
Apologies if it has been asked before.

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How is the plan for AI to build it and install it on the actual hardware and run it for a time and look what happens?

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I'm sure AI will be able to answer the question ...

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Commits of this week show that kernels 5.15 and 6.1 have been dropped, hence all targets have moved to kernel 6.6. That's a major goal for next release :clap:

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