I have read that 802.11az supports "next generation positioning" (NGP) to determine and map locations of wireless devices.
Does OpenWrt support this technology? I want to buy some OpenWrt One APs (https://openwrt.org/toh/openwrt/one) but cannot find any reference to the protocols supported.
Can anyone tell me how to retrieve the positioning data? This is what I plan to do:
install four access points in a big warehouse
scan for any devices in the area
calculate the position of the devices
plot the location on an map
My understanding is that anyone who enters the area and has a phone, tablet or other wireless device will be detected so can be tracked. By using this data then I can identify them, turn lights on/off, log their entry/exit times and build up a history of usage to improve people flow and resources.
This looks like a promising technology and I would love to build and share a solution that people can benefit from - just need some pointers and tips before I start the project.
Is it simply a case of uncommenting the necessary lines in that configuration files?
Will the messages received be compliant with the 802.11az specification?
How to request the messages? Does one analyse pcap dumps or is there a more elegant solution?
Indeed, noted. Activating lights was a simple example, and I am currently using PIR for that current task, but the plan is bringing it into the 21st century so that ie different people with different access levels activate different lights.
It is more about receiving the position data - what users ultimately decide to do with that is their prerogative.
there's a few dependencies first you will need a device that conforms with the protocol, second the likes of hostapd and third an app that provides the necessary triangulation (using something like google maps , gps )
I suspect support on hostapd may come at some point but I think we will be most likely stuck with HW providers first ... are there are any devices out there that you know support 802.11az ?
Once there was wildly promising technique of tracking users in shopping centers from wifi and bt beacons, with all the promises washed away in a month when mobile devices started to beacon random. So tell me more about novel use cases and practical 10cm microsecond location accuracy privacy without reinventing the wheel.
there's a paper out there (2022) that notes accuracy is best achieved on the 60ghz spectrum otherwise "tens of centimeters" !!! https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.05996
it does note the challenges also ... i doubt tech has caught up yet perhaps when we have wifi8
There are many documents that describe 802.11az features such as:
The new IEEE 802.11az standard is truly groundbreaking, offering more refined and accurate location capabilities, which provide an array of possibilities to device manufacturers.
802.11az, also known as Next Generation Positioning (NGP) ... uses the time-of-flight (ToF) technique to measure the distance between a mobile device and Wi-Fi access points (APs) in an indoor environment. By measuring the time it takes for a signal to travel from the AP to the device, NGP can determine the distance between them. This information can then be used to calculate the position of the device.
The 802.11az standard, commonly referred to as next generation positioning (NGP), enables a STA to identify its position relative to multiple access points (APs).
I am prepared and intend to develop an open-source a solution but just need some feedback from you experts before I embark on this:
Does OpenWrt support the 802.11az / NGP protocol?
Is the OpenWrt One a suitable device or can you recommend another?
What is the process to request the positioning data from the devices?
I do not want Bluetooth beacons or GPS coordinates or anything outside of a small scope, which is simply to get accurate triangulation data for calculation of indoor position of devices.
Randomisation of identifier by devices is fine, I can work around that once I obtain further readings, for now I want to create some proof-of-concept code.
If any examples exist on getting the location data that I can then build an application with then it would be a very helpful starting point.
It is quite a privacy invasion, if you brag about wifi projects you must be able to locate wifi certified devices with intended capability. Hint: 500 bucks and up per pop
I have read that the 802.11az allows the client to triangulate its position from the information it gets from the AP's without allowing the AP's to know its location. Whether this is true or there is a "secret sauce" in there is a different story, but IN THEORY it should be private.
Besides, if your device is connected to an AP the AP knows you are close already so a rough location is already known by the AP. Not to the 10cm accuracy, but the AP already knows the general area where you are.
Also, for how little I've read about the protocol, the geolocation process is started by the client and the client gets the position, not the AP's (in theory). So your client device has to report the location to the server with this protocol, the server does not get access to it unless the client shares. I see this being useful for home automation for example, where the home automation app in your phone reports your exact location to the HA server so it can react accordingly. If you have dabbed a bit into HA, having the exact location of every person in the house, not just presence detection in a room or area, can open a range of very cool and useful automations. If it worries you that, let's say, a mall will track your every move, your client would have to report the location to the mall servers, and that can only happen if you allow it by installing the mall's app or something like that.
I think it is a decent implementation of the technology. It does not introduce more privacy aggressions than wi-fi did not have already, while being very useful in certain scenarios.
Edit: btw, do the chipset need to implement this protocol or is it all in software? If the chipset needs to implement the protocol, any idea where i can finds which ones do and which ones do not? I've tried finding out but my websearch skills are failing me.
