You are right HooTooJunkie,All MAX is doing is pissing people off and running people off.People come here to get help with problems they have with OPENWRT and they read crap like this,(Be so kind and not double-post.)and(Truly irrelevant to OpenWrt ) and(N.B. - this topic is unrelated to OpenWrt)and(Pretty please post a YouTube [rant] video link.)and(Well shet my mout an kal me speetliz.)and(Be so kind to not refer to storage as memory)and(Perhaps a google elsewhere delivers a solution.)and( I beg your pardon? I do not speak doofus.)and(Be so kind to comply with these requirements.)and(Be so kind to request support from a suitable forum.)and everybody's favourite (Be so kind to Search before posting.)
Was any of this crap helpful to anybody,No he is a TROLL,TROLLS don,t help nobody do nothing but keep them pissed off that all and he is running off new people and keeping people from posting so they don't haft to read his BULL SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!
Get the 'Hopper' deleted from this forum.
His IP address should also be banned, so he can't get back on from another named account.

(Last edited by ckm on 21 Aug 2016, 14:29)

I too can say that this ...at one time... was true.
I use to look forward to his answers that hinted at the fix someone needed, but prompted them to think of the solution themselves, in quite a slick and positive fashion.

But recently he's been simply annoying many here, and scaring some new members.
Some never came back or posted another reply-question in the same thread or elsewhere on the forum.
(That's how I can say that Max (in case he'll ask for proof))

Even if many ignore him, he's not helping anymore, much of the time.
Being nice to him is just if he goes back to the helpful professor-type of member he use to be.

(Last edited by HooTooJunkie on 21 Aug 2016, 17:47)

I wouldn't be surprised if Max is also the one posting these SPAM posts too, from another created account.

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=67060
And
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=67057

If not, his are becoming even more annoying than those spam posts..!

(Last edited by HooTooJunkie on 21 Aug 2016, 17:43)

I agree, Max should get kicked. He is rude and abusive. Me personally, I don't want to be part of the forum if people don't have a miminum amount of manners.

(Last edited by MagicSimon on 21 Aug 2016, 19:18)

Hi HooTooJunkie,

        I believe you give Max too much credit here. His terseness sometimes simply hid the fact that he did not know what he was talking about (I admit, sometimes he was knowledgeable and helpful, but in my eyes he lost all the benefit of the doubt with his antics*).

        Personally, I believe in that each forum gets the members it somewhat deserves; if the forum regulars would truly not condone behavior as often demonstrated by M. Hopper, they would counter post his unwanted postings more consistently... Mind you I do not propose being unfriendly, but simply to counter his rudeness and weird behavior. In a number of forums this functionality is performed by moderators, this forum for better or worse is effectively unmoderated, so it really is down to the members/posters to show what behavior they accept or not accept. Banning is not a real solution as accounts are easily created anonymously and IP addresses are also rather ephemeral...

Best Regards
        M.

P.S.: * he recently started to direct people over to freelancer.com indicating he would offer his services for BTC over there; which makes me believe he is actively working to decrease the signal to noise ration and civility in this forum as it will make it more likely for potential paying customers to not get a free solution here in the forum. If this should be true, I offer a slow clap and a "well played, Max, well played".

I don't know Max very well, but it sounds like you've known him longer than I do.
I agree, his antics have ruined his credibility here.

Plus, now your "p.s." ...about how he could be trying to degrade chances of anyone receiving a free answer from here, only to direct them to the Freelancer site, for a paid assistance session from him, is just totally contrary to what this site stands for, and is putting it's time out there for.

If banning his IP (repeatedly when he changes it) and deleting his accounts each time he try's again, won't stop it...
How then should this be dealt with?

Actually, banning him (or his ip, which I doubt is technically reasonable) is not possible because this forum is virtually unmoderated and none of us has admin rights. So, what can we do, if we want to change anything about the trolling here? I like moeller0's idead of "counter post his unwanted postings more consistently".

How would you respond to this latest one...?..."All righty then..." ...?

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 01#p335501

Some of his stuff is kind-of amusing, sometimes, on a juvenile level.
...I could over-look the above, if he'd stop the insulting ones.

Maybe try talking with him instead of talking about him, for a change. If possible in an adult manner. I know, I usually fall into the trap of thinking we're all adults here (figuratively and literally), that's because I have been discussing on the Internet since back then when it was actually only adults that had access to it. But I firmly believe that, if nothing else, the wish of anyone investing some serious time in here is to at least be taken serious, and have their wishes heard and if possible fulfilled.

So I ask you, Max, what are your wishes about this forum? You seem to have a concept of how this forum works and how its members and visitors should behave. However, as you can see, it is not immediately obvious, and hard to deduct from your postings. If you don't mind, take this opportunity to at least outline your idea of proper conduct in here so we all can understand each other better.

metai that don't work with assholes like max he is a TROLL look at this, him going after somebody with only 4 post needing help and i ask did this stupid crap help anybody did this help this person with his problem.

Did your dog eat your (searching) homework? and
Be so kind to update the WiKi when you develop that.  and
Nothing need be added nor removed from the AP that has 'net access.

What you require has been successfully deployed, many times over.

THAT IS BEING NOTHING MORE THAN BEING A SON OF A BITCH TO POST SHIT like that ASKING THAT PICE OF SHIT TO BE NICE DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, no, asking Max might not change anything, but you seem reasonable, so could you please try to keep your tone (not necessarily your message) more civil and polite?
        I likened behavior (like the one often displayed by Mr. Hopper) to the acts of a not yet house-trained puppy in our shared living room; if we all start to urinate on the sofa, we a) loose credibility in correcting the puppies behavior and b) do not end up with a nicer living room , so please let us keep the conversation friendly*. Thanks in advance.

*) friendly does not mean stupid, so feel free to correct Max directly even with increasing spiciness, but let's keep the discussions among the "adults" more civil. Again thanks.

Best Regards
       M.

@Max, I am fully capable of writing my own postings, but thanks for trying... Note how I actually gave ckm the courtesy of actually composing a new response instead of recycling an old one? That might actually be a good thing, if you would force yourself to actually only post fully formulated and new responses to the forum, I am sure people would like you more for it, as everything* (including flames) are better when fresh...

Best Regards
        M.

* Sure some things like red wine, whiskey, interpersonal communications and to some degree cheese actually improve by some maturation, but posting rarely improve by recycling in my eyes...

P.S.: I am not sure whether my comment about your better behavior is still warranted given your recent (mis-)behavior...

(Last edited by moeller0 on 23 Aug 2016, 12:24)

A reliable method to housebreak puppies is to rub their noses in their excrement.

suck my ass max fuck you max you piece of shit go some place else and piss people off you asshole nobody wants to read your shit someone that is new and you attack them with that stupid shit you need to keep your shitty mouth shut you need to leave OPENWRT forums and go to HELL or to DDWRT forums they are a lot of assholes like you their thats why i don't go their too many asshole like you.IF IT TAKES BANNING ME TO HELP GET RID OF YOUR TROLLING ASS THIN LETS DO IT.

(Last edited by ckm on 23 Aug 2016, 12:31)

Haha...!  So true is you puppy analogy, it makes me smile.

He's still going on about an imagined rant of his, in a thread where I mentioned the SunValleyTek company (HooToo Router Mfg) would still replace the router for someone even if they said they flashed another firmware on it.

But he didn't believe it so he tried it himself...
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 41#p335541

...and they actually agreed to replace it for him...
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 94#p335594

But he's not satisfied with that validity...and suggests the wording they used is giving them an out to honor the replacement agreement....
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 01#p335601

And still says I'm lying about it...and announcing their policies now...
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php … 31#p335631

I think he's beyond talking to him in a logical and adult-like manner.

(Last edited by HooTooJunkie on 23 Aug 2016, 12:54)

Max, please read http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/do … ppies.html and re-evaluate your puppy training recommendations, they seem to be outdated and wrong. Ironically, your post fits three of your typical patterns:
A) you go off on a tangent, typically after you realized you lost an argument.
B) you do rather shoddy research and your recommendations are dubious at best.
C) you phrase your responses so terse that the lack proper indicators what they refer to, in an obvious attempt to maintain "plausible deniability" (as if this forum would be a court of law)

        To not get fully off-topic, that link above contains a lot of recommendations to deal with little "stinkers" that simply do not know any better. I wonder how much of that is applicable to a forum with an apparently not yet potty-trained member...

Best Regards
        M.

Well, as most of us, he does not seem to like loosing arguments, unlike the rest of us he still seems inexplicably lured to starting arguments even when he is clearly outside of his field of expertise... I guess learning when to shut up actually is a valuable skill he might not have mastered yet.

Best Regards
        M.

I wonder how much god does that in training Max how to behave properly. If it at least calms your mood than it does at least some good. It unfortunately does not make to forum any nicer.
        Look, if we let a forum get derailed by one single mediocre part-time troll we might ne deserve any better. As I would like to phrase, hard men ban trolls, real men tame them.

Best Regards
        M.

I made a simple reference that he should be less literal sometimes, that not everything needs exact explanations all the time...
...and he even jumped on that...!

Look, if we let a forum get derailed by one single mediocre part-time troll we might ne deserve any better. As I would like to phrase, hard men ban trolls, real men tame them.

That's nice MOELLERO if it all was against me no problem but he posts that crap to everybody even people with 1 post and i don't like that it's uncalled for no respect and he will not stop it just makes people mad and say I will go some place else and get help i don't think theirs that many people coming to the forums for help with MAX thiers going to be a lot less coming here for help.People come here for help not to argue with idiots with a smart attitude.He needs to keep his big mouth shut and he's showed he is not going to do that.

I am starting to believe that he is living in his own special world and maybe the advice to simply ignore him would be best. It seems he literally can not help himself from acting like he does. That earns him my pity (not that he seems to need it, his post contains sufficient self-pity,*), but I still maintain that this does not justify letting him scare people away that are actively looking for help.

Best Regards
        M.

P.S.: he uses words like "antisocial and rude" repeatedly while his behavior seems to indicate that he does not know what they mean... It fits that he seems to see himself as one of the few at the "bleeding edge". I wish he would just treat us left-bedinders with more verbosity, civility and politeness until we had time to catch up.

        I fully agree that his behavior should not be accepted in this forum; my proposed remedy (one which I actually implement from time to time) is to respond to his more out-of-line posts in-thread, telling him to be more polite and more explicit and then try to help the OP. Interestingly, while doing so it became clear to me that his area of expertise is not as broad as he assumes and he repeatedly starts from the wrong premise (which in itself is nothing to be ashamed of, it happens to all of us, but in his case it just seems doubly ironic).
        It also has stronger impact on new-comers if we actually both tell Max to stop AND add helpful information to a thread than just telling Max of. And given Max's proclivity to not post helpful help (but rather terse riddles, best case) it is not too difficult adding more help than he did.
        Personally, this whole issue thought me a valuable lesson about online communities and, if I may say so, a feeling how "the tragedy of the commons" can simply happen by lack of vigilance and active encouragement of acceptable behavior. This forum's lack of moderators combined with its obscurity (by internet standards) has made this into a nice social experiment...

Best Regards
        M.

P.S.: About "keeping his mouth shut" when he has nothing explicitly helpful to add I agree, but the only way to reach that goal is to convince him to change his behavior. So we either slowly try to "house-train" him or we keep annoying him when his posts are out of line (or do both in a push pull fashion). Even as he seems to be a glutton for punishment his reactions to loosing arguments show that he dislikes that just like the rest of us (only his attitude makes him more prone to get into an argument underprepared and hence more likely to loose it).

(Last edited by moeller0 on 23 Aug 2016, 14:04)

Once? Twice? That might quantify but not qualify that 'remedy'.

At present I'm not visiting this forum as I used to be, but he is everywhere, so it is quite easy to make an opinion. Even Max Hopper can sometimes be helpful, but he's somewhere between not kind and outright arrogant, so the exact opposite from what this forum was without him. He is spoiling the vibe of this forum and I think he should wear badge like troll warning, do not feed under his nick name ;-)