OpenWrt Forum Archive

Topic: Is this the smallest wifi router?

The content of this topic has been archived between 17 Mar 2018 and 3 May 2018. There are no obvious gaps in this topic, but there may still be some posts missing at the end.

lizby wrote:

Is your camera a Canon camera running the chdk software (I ask because of your mention of liveview)? I have some familiarity with this, but am using a dockstar running debian rather than openwrt. What is it you want usb to do that it isn't doing?

I am not actually using chdk liveview (because my dockstar is headless), but am using remote shoot via a browser window.

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No, my camera only has the "stock" software on it. I've been tempted to try running "Magic Lantern" software on it, but haven't gotten around to working through all of the potential issues (loss of warranty, will it work w/ Lightroom and Canon's EOS Utility, etc, etc, etc).

Anyway, to answer your question: What I want to do is replace the USB cable with a WiFi link. I thought this would be easy, but as they say, "the devil's in the details."

RangerZ wrote:

What to do with this is clears a mud to me?
https://github.com/domino-team

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I'm with you on the mud part... it looks interesting though. The people behind this project apparently got their inspiration from OpenWRT, and have some sort of affiliation with GL. Strangely though, most of the cool hardware described on their kickstarter page is not available from the GL store, or anywhere else.

Domino is Gl.inet.  Its thier IoT/hacking side/family.  Again, clear as mud.  You go right from the GL.Inet site to the Domino site.

Note that chdk runs on many Canon cameras. It is loaded from the SD card and does nothing to the camera's firmware (except replace it in working memory at power-up), and so does not affect the warranty. Remove/replace the SD card, and the camera is as per stock.

I connected my camera via usb to a Dockstar running debian, as you want to connect to a device running openWrt. Then the camera could be controlled "headlessly" through a browser for remote shooting and retrieval of snaps with a wifi connection.

You want to retrieve the Live View of the LCD (as I understand it). There was work on this in chdk when the camera was directly attached to a PC (Windows or Linux).

I haven't looked at chdk in 18 months, so it is possible that development has proceeded so that Live View will now work wirelessly through a headless device.  I had to compile chkd programs (specifically, chdkptp) on the Dockstar. This worked easily enough, but on a GL.iNet or any openWrt device you would need enough storage to be able to install a C compiler.

(Last edited by lizby on 4 Oct 2015, 01:39)

lizby wrote:

Note that chdk runs on many Canon cameras. It is loaded from the SD card and does nothing to the camera's firmware (except replace it in working memory at power-up), and so does not affect the warranty. Remove/replace the SD card, and the camera is as per stock.

I connected my camera via usb to a Dockstar running debian, as you want to connect to a device running openWrt. Then the camera could be controlled "headlessly" through a browser for remote shooting and retrieval of snaps with a wifi connection.

You want to retrieve the Live View of the LCD (as I understand it). There was work on this in chdk when the camera was directly attached to a PC (Windows or Linux).

I haven't looked at chdk in 18 months, so it is possible that development has proceeded so that Live View will now work wirelessly through a headless device.  I had to compile chkd programs (specifically, chdkptp) on the Dockstar. This worked easily enough, but on a GL.iNet or any openWrt device you would need enough storage to be able to install a C compiler.

That's interesting... did not know that chdk could do that. But chdk does not run on the DSLR-type camera (e.g. EOS 5D). Magic Lantern *does* run on DSLR. chdk provided inspiration for ML; think of it as a hopped-up version of chdk. I will take a closer look at ML to see if they have a similar "headless" feature.

However, even if ML does provide that, it does not completely meet my objective. I want to be able to use my Lightroom or Capture One software on the Mac end of the connection. They provide many features that are useful - features that cannot be had via browser interface. Consequently, it still seems to me that the approach of "USB masquerading" is a reasonable approach to accomplish this. USB masquerading: Camera, Lightroom  and OSX think they are on a USB cable, but we use wifi instead of cable.

I've never programmed USB, so this may be crazy. I would like feedback on this idea from anyone - a "sanity check" please.

"USB masquerading" over wifi sounds like a really good solution for cameras and for many other specialty usb devices. Googling that doesn't turn up any useful links for me. Have you heard about this, or have you invented this phrase? I'd love to see it on openWrt devices.

yeah, I just invented it when responding to your post. I've had a hard time communicating what I want to do, and like you, when I search for resources, all I get is irrelevant to my objective.

RangerZ wrote:

The HooToo, Gl.inet and NEXX are so close to the same physical size it should be more about the functionality and open source status. 

The Gl.inet is the champ with its ROM/RAM/CPU/OpenWrt/GPIO and customer support.
http://www.gl-inet.com/forums/
I do not own one, but should...... http://www.gl-inet.com/download/product … 150930.pdf
I'm waiting for the GL-M300TA, even if it does not have a battery.  580Mhz CPU w/ 16 MB flash,128 MB RAM w/ OpenWRT Installed
Killer

Strongly agree.  Especially about the part that RangerZ should own one!  ;-)  [I keep hoping he'll buy one and figure out all the little things, e.g. USB wifi.]

At this point, I give GL.iNet in their spirit of openness and support for hacking/extending.

Any idea when these M300 units are going to be available?  Those look like monster travel routers!

RangerZ wrote:

The HooToo, Gl.inet and NEXX are so close to the same physical size it should be more about the functionality and open source status.

Agreed, but don't knock the other candidates. At least the NEXX devices have complete support by OpenWrt, even a CC final release, so as far as I am concerned the "Open Source status" is there even without the manufacturer's collaboration.

otorskchy002 wrote:

I don't know where klaberte got the "AR150" designation, but the unit I have is model GL-iNet-6416 according to the documentation. a.k.a. http://www.amazon.com/Gl-iNet-Router-Op … B00JKFE0FW

Your other comment is a bummer also - klaberte's post states that "... it can easily be upgraded to the latest trunk"

This is one of the reasons I bought this unit... whose information is correct?

Sorry for the confusion. 

http://www.amazon.com/Gl-iNet-Router-Op … B00JKFE0FW
This is the 6416.  It now has support in the main trunk of openwrt, so you can easily upgrade to the latest version of OpenWRT as they become available.  As RangerZ correctly pointed out, upgrading the firmware to the main trunk means you lose GL-iNet's proprietary GUI, which makes setting the device up from a phone clean and simple.  And you can access all the OpenWRT goodness by simply clicking the Advanced button.

http://www.amazon.com/GL-AR150-router-1 … B015CYDVG8
http://www.amazon.com/GL-AR150-ext-Exte … B015CYI8DY
This is the AR150.  It is slightly newer than the 6416.  The specs are mostly the same as the 6416, but gives an additional (configurable) LED and switch, is capable of power over ethernet, and a more standard spacing of the pre-existing header pins, if you plan to hack that part of it.  So far, it is too new to be incorporated into the OpenWRT main branch, but that will happen in time.  The AR150 also comes with an external antenna option, which for most people, would be the only real advantage over the older 6416.

Sounds like you bought the 6416, which, based on your desire to potentially recompile your own custom open-source firmware, is what you want (for now).

otorskchy002 wrote:
RangerZ wrote:

I think you might want to ask your questions here as well.http://www.gl-inet.com/forums/
Include your camera specifics.  I have no idea about how to accomplish this.

Thanks - I'll check that out right away.

Fwiw, I did connect my camera's USB port to the router, and got what I expected: Nothing. The USB port does work as advertised though (at least for storage media), as it immediately recognized a "thumb drive", and made that available via my wifi connection.

It seems that you have plugged in a specific camera into the USB slot of a openwrt box, without first installing the proper driver for your camera.

You will need to see if there is a linux driver support for your USB device (in this case, your camera).  Check to see if anyone has had success adjusting these settings on your camera using a standard Linux distribution.  If yes, then it is a good sign.  After that, check whether an Raspberry Pi users have constructed a Pi to serve as this interface.  If yes, then you need to see if this driver has been ported to the OpenWRT package repository.

metai wrote:
RangerZ wrote:

The HooToo, Gl.inet and NEXX are so close to the same physical size it should be more about the functionality and open source status.

Agreed, but don't knock the other candidates. At least the NEXX devices have complete support by OpenWrt, even a CC final release, so as far as I am concerned the "Open Source status" is there even without the manufacturer's collaboration.

That's fair, but reading through the NEXX OpenWRT wiki a few times, the u-boot upgrade/replacement issue is not explained well enough to make me think this will work for me (and others not experienced with serial upgrades) on the first try.  On the other hand, the HooToo and GL-iNET wiki pages describing the first installation is very easy to follow.

Sure, once you get a stable OpenWRT installed, then the faster processor of the NEXX looks promising.  I guess it matters what you want: 1. to follow a recipe and have a successful outcome after 30-60 min, or 2. find your own path, i.e. enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

klaberte wrote:

That's fair, but reading through the NEXX OpenWRT wiki a few times, the u-boot upgrade/replacement issue is not explained well enough

That tripped me for a second, not being able to remember anything with u-boot at my initial installation. Turns out the instructions on the OpenWrt wiki for the WT1520 are not necessary, you can just flash OpenWrt through the original web interface.

However, the WT3020 may be an entirely different thing. You're right, the instructions seem convoluted and give a lot of (unnecessary) detail. May need a rewrite.

(Last edited by metai on 6 Oct 2015, 04:34)

klaberte wrote:
otorskchy002 wrote:
RangerZ wrote:

I think you might want to ask your questions here as well.http://www.gl-inet.com/forums/
Include your camera specifics.  I have no idea about how to accomplish this.

Thanks - I'll check that out right away.

Fwiw, I did connect my camera's USB port to the router, and got what I expected: Nothing. The USB port does work as advertised though (at least for storage media), as it immediately recognized a "thumb drive", and made that available via my wifi connection.

It seems that you have plugged in a specific camera into the USB slot of a openwrt box, without first installing the proper driver for your camera.

You will need to see if there is a linux driver support for your USB device (in this case, your camera).  Check to see if anyone has had success adjusting these settings on your camera using a standard Linux distribution.  If yes, then it is a good sign.  After that, check whether an Raspberry Pi users have constructed a Pi to serve as this interface.  If yes, then you need to see if this driver has been ported to the OpenWRT package repository.

The problem isn't just using the Canon Live View option on a Raspberry Pi. You can use Live View on Windows or a Mac using Canon software (I don't know whether it's available on Linux). You can certainly use Live View on Linux with chdk (provided the camera supports chdk, which the DSLRs mostly don't). The Raspberry Pi would not be "headless" then (i.e., not remote). The problem is making the Canon software, which the OP wants to use on his Mac, think that a Canon camera which is actually plugged into a remote device is local. This is the "USB Masquerading" which the OP speaks of--a pretty nifty feature.

I agree that if this were possible, it would probably be easier to get it to work on a headless Raspberry Pi than on an openWrt device, since usually more resources and especially more processing power would be available.

lizby wrote:
klaberte wrote:
otorskchy002 wrote:

Thanks - I'll check that out right away.

Fwiw, I did connect my camera's USB port to the router, and got what I expected: Nothing. The USB port does work as advertised though (at least for storage media), as it immediately recognized a "thumb drive", and made that available via my wifi connection.

It seems that you have plugged in a specific camera into the USB slot of a openwrt box, without first installing the proper driver for your camera.

You will need to see if there is a linux driver support for your USB device (in this case, your camera).  Check to see if anyone has had success adjusting these settings on your camera using a standard Linux distribution.  If yes, then it is a good sign.  After that, check whether an Raspberry Pi users have constructed a Pi to serve as this interface.  If yes, then you need to see if this driver has been ported to the OpenWRT package repository.

The problem isn't just using the Canon Live View option on a Raspberry Pi. You can use Live View on Windows or a Mac using Canon software (I don't know whether it's available on Linux). You can certainly use Live View on Linux with chdk (provided the camera supports chdk, which the DSLRs mostly don't). The Raspberry Pi would not be "headless" then (i.e., not remote). The problem is making the Canon software, which the OP wants to use on his Mac, think that a Canon camera which is actually plugged into a remote device is local. This is the "USB Masquerading" which the OP speaks of--a pretty nifty feature.

I agree that if this were possible, it would probably be easier to get it to work on a headless Raspberry Pi than on an openWrt device, since usually more resources and especially more processing power would be available.

----------------------------------

I want to call your attention to the OpenWrt part of the nice app DslrDashboard that has already solved most of your needs:

                 http://dslrdashboard.info/dslrdashboardserver-ddserver/

Now... retaking the first post... I m precisely after a Openwrt supported router sized like one of those in the 1sr post amazon list so as to build a wireless tethering "dongle" for my Nikon (DslrDashboard supports Cannon too)

Routers sized like the ones in later posts have been already made to work with this software suite and there are even demo videos out there... But if you consider that you will need to attach them to the camera hold in your hands, they are still not practically sized.

So anyone knows a developer (maybe a photographer himself) who would be interested in taking the challenge???  if so... I would be ready to make the HW donation!!

pbrena wrote:

I want to call your attention to the OpenWrt part of the nice app DslrDashboard that has already solved most of your needs:

                 http://dslrdashboard.info/dslrdashboardserver-ddserver/

Impressive! Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. For me personally, this app may be missing one thing:

It doesn't appear to support 3rd party apps (Lightroom, Capture One and Canon EOS Utility). These are important to me as I've built my workflow around these apps.

The project claims support for Live View, but I didn't see it in the video tutorial. Of course Live View with low latency is essential as it informs you when to release the shutter. I mention this primarily because a commercial product I bought had too much latency. The Live View stream is isochronous, but I suppose it requires some care in handling to minimize latency.

If my critique overlooked something in the website, please let me know.

This is quite an achievement, and it sounds like there will be ongoing development. I hope the developers decide to support 3rd party apps in addition to their own dashboard app.

(Last edited by otorskchy002 on 7 Oct 2015, 17:07)

otorskchy002 wrote:
pbrena wrote:

I want to call your attention to the OpenWrt part of the nice app DslrDashboard that has already solved most of your needs:

                 http://dslrdashboard.info/dslrdashboardserver-ddserver/

Impressive! Thank you for bringing this into the discussion. For me personally, this app falls short in two respects:

1. Doesn't appear to support 3rd party apps (Lightroom, Capture One and Canon EOS Utility). Important to me as I've built my workflow around these apps.

2. Support for the Live View function? The project claims support for Live View, but I didn't see it in the video tutorial. This is essential as it informs you when to release the shutter; of course low latency is essential.

And my apologies if my critique overlooked something in the website. Please let me know if I missed something.

Nevertheless, this is quite an achievement, and it sounds like there will be ongoing development (I hope so).

i already tried it from my mac (only usb attached so far) and it does support live view (if the camera has this function of course) along other impressive feats as for example changing autofocus zone with the click of a mouse, transferring raw and jpeg, etc....  according to opinions in web forums as good as a tethering app as it gets... and open sourced!!!... please look further in youtube for examples... the multi platform client is pretty much the same in android, windows, os x and ios so... any demo video would give a good idea of it... it works great !!!

being a beginner (poor man's) studio... i would appreciate some pointers from you, i m very interested in your methodology, workflow and tools even if they are commercial... i could later try to emulate them with free tools out there...

I notice the originally posting has now a photo approach... could someone rename it???

and... i call the openwrt/photo community to support further development of the DDSERVER OpenWrt package (i made already made my grain of sand donation) currently only compiled for the ar71xx platform:

        http://dslrdashboard.info/download/ddse … 3-package/

it would be great to integrate the app along with the canonical OpenWrt distribution... any pointers on how to achieve that???

if my technical skills were better i would target to create a (practical) camera attachable wireless tethering dongle based in one of the (even) smaller wireless routers like those pointed out in the 1st post...

Comments????

Might I suggest that those interested specifically in the intersection of OpenWRT and remote control of DSLRs create a new thread with a more descriptive subject?  I'm not saying this to be cranky, but just for archival reasons.  Most people who will find this thread topic via search are probably looking more generally for small OpenWRT options in general.  Once a new thread is created, we can ask the moderators to move the relevant posts from here to there, in order to make it easier for late-comers who are specifically looking for DSLR applications.

Now that there are several low-cost, tiny routers supporting OpenWRT, this thread may have a longish life as a place to catch up on the latest offerings.

Just my $0.02.

pbrena wrote:

i already tried it from my mac (only usb attached so far) and it does support live view (if the camera has this function of course) along other impressive feats as for example changing autofocus zone with the click of a mouse, transferring raw and jpeg, etc....  according to opinions in web forums as good as a tethering app as it gets... and open sourced!!!... please look further in youtube for examples... the multi platform client is pretty much the same in android, windows, os x and ios so... any demo video would give a good idea of it... it works great !!!

being a beginner (poor man's) studio... i would appreciate some pointers from you, i m very interested in your methodology, workflow and tools even if they are commercial... i could later try to emulate them with free tools out there...

I notice the originally posting has now a photo approach... could someone rename it???

...<snipped>

Comments????

I think I was editing my reply when you posted this... But you are correct, the project does support Live View.

Are you affiliated with this project? If so, I'd like to know how I could get involved, and support it. Please let me know. 

I'm new to this OpenWRT group, so I can't help with any suggestions on how to integrate the dslrdashboard project with it. But I'm sure you can get some feedback on that here - you might want to post that in one of the other threads.

With respect to the workflow business and 3rd part apps I use: This is probably not the right place to go over that in detail, but I'd be glad to offer my views in an appropriate forum. I see the project has its own forum, so I'll post there.

klaberte wrote:

Might I suggest that those interested specifically in the intersection of OpenWRT and remote control of DSLRs create a new thread with a more descriptive subject?

You're correct - my apologies. I think I started this thread, and I did so because I was looking for hardware to support the "DSLR control" application. That's not an excuse, simply an explanation as to how we got here. But yes, this has wandered too far away from the original post.

[...]

Are you affiliated with this project? If so, I'd like to know how I could get involved, and support it. Please let me know. 

[...]

one last intromision...  i m just an unaffiliated user looking forward to meet you in other forums...

getting back into topic... being a beginner OpenWrt with medium linux skills what is the best way to promote support for dongle sized routers???....  any developers out there???

otorskchy002 wrote:
klaberte wrote:

Might I suggest that those interested specifically in the intersection of OpenWRT and remote control of DSLRs create a new thread with a more descriptive subject?

You're correct - my apologies. I think I started this thread, and I did so because I was looking for hardware to support the "DSLR control" application. That's not an excuse, simply an explanation as to how we got here. But yes, this has wandered too far away from the original post.

No need to apologize.  It is your thread, after all!  And the flow of discussion makes a lot of sense.  But as we were (are) all newbies at one point, we can all attest to the challenge of finding the right thread to read when you are starting out.   It is probably good for those that will follow us to match discussions with topic titles.