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Topic: Norway has less 5 GHz restrictions than EU

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Post #1
SlimG
25 Oct 2010, 15:31

According to 802.11n-2009.pdf (Page 456), Europe can use 18 channels:

36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132 & 136

According to FOR 2009-06-02 nr 580 (Google translated norwegian regulations relating to general permits for use of frequencies, subsection: Cordless telephones and wireless data transmission) written in Norwegian, Wi-Fi usage in Norway is less restricted than the 802.11n-2009.pdf document.
Translation of the relevant part:

(3) the frequency band 5150-5350 MHz is authorized for indoor data transfer including radio-based local area networks (WAS / RLAN) with a maximum radiated power of 200 mW eirp the frequency use defined in the standard EN 301 893 If any other use than indoor use, the average spectral density in the frequency band 5150-5350 MHz is limited to 10 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz range.

(4) the frequency band 5470-5725 MHz may be used for data transfer with maximum radiated power of 1 W eirp Maximum average spectral density shall not exceed 50 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz band. The radio equipment shall implement transmit power control (TPC) which provides an average attenuation of at least 3 dB. If TPC is not in use, the maximum allowed radiated power and power density is 3 dB lower than that following the first and second sentence. The radio equipment will use Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard EN 301 893

(5) The frequency bands 5725-5795 MHz and 5815-5850 MHz for data transfer with maximum radiated power of 4 W eirp Maximum average spectral density shall not exceed 200 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz band. The radio equipment shall implement Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard EN 302 502 Radio equipment shall transmit power control (TPC) which provides an average attenuation of at least 3 dB. If TPC is not in use, the maximum allowed radiated power and power density is 3 dB lower than that following the first and second sentence. On the border between Norway and neighboring power density shall not exceed -122.5 dBW / m 2 measured with a reference bandwidth of 1 MHz unless otherwise stated in the coordination agreement.

(6) The frequency bands 5725-5795 and 5815-5850 MHz for point-to-point radio links with maximum radiated power of 200 W eirp Maximum permitted power supplied antenna is 1 W. The maximum average spectral density shall not exceed 10 W / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz band. The concept of point-to-point radio links exclude all forms of point-to-multipoint, omnidirectional systems and transmitters send the same information located in the same place (sector antennas). The radio equipment shall implement Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard EN 302 502 On the border between Norway and neighboring power density shall not exceed -122.5 dBW / m 2 measured with a reference bandwidth of 1 MHz unless otherwise stated in the coordination agreement.

From what I can tell, you should be able to use the following channels in Norway:
36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60 & 64  with maximum 200 mW eirp
100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132 & 136 with maximum 1000 mW eirp, TPC and DFS

It seems like Norway has more frequencies available, but these are the one interesting to me that 802.11n-2009.pdf says I should be able to use in Norway.

I'm using D-Link DIR-825 B2E (ath9k) with OpenWRT Backfire (10.03, r23529) that I've compiled with the "Force Atheros drivers to respect the user's regdomain settings" option enabled.

Here is the relevant part of "iw list" before running "iw reg set NO":

* 5180 MHz [36] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5200 MHz [40] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5220 MHz [44] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5240 MHz [48] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5260 MHz [52] (20.0 dBm)
* 5280 MHz [56] (20.0 dBm)
* 5300 MHz [60] (20.0 dBm)
* 5320 MHz [64] (20.0 dBm)
* 5500 MHz [100] (20.0 dBm)
* 5520 MHz [104] (20.0 dBm)
* 5540 MHz [108] (20.0 dBm)
* 5560 MHz [112] (20.0 dBm)
* 5580 MHz [116] (20.0 dBm)
* 5600 MHz [120] (20.0 dBm)
* 5620 MHz [124] (20.0 dBm)
* 5640 MHz [128] (20.0 dBm)
* 5660 MHz [132] (20.0 dBm)
* 5680 MHz [136] (20.0 dBm)
* 5700 MHz [140] (20.0 dBm)
* 5745 MHz [149] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5765 MHz [153] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5785 MHz [157] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5805 MHz [161] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5825 MHz [165] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)

Running "iw reg get" before "iw reg set NO"

country 00:
        (2402 - 2472 @ 40), (3, 20)
        (2457 - 2482 @ 20), (3, 20), PASSIVE-SCAN, NO-IBSS
        (2474 - 2494 @ 20), (3, 20), NO-OFDM, PASSIVE-SCAN, NO-IBSS
        (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (3, 20), PASSIVE-SCAN, NO-IBSS
        (5735 - 5835 @ 40), (3, 20), PASSIVE-SCAN, NO-IBSS

Here is the relevant part of "iw list" after running "iw reg set NO"

* 5180 MHz [36] (20.0 dBm)
* 5200 MHz [40] (20.0 dBm)
* 5220 MHz [44] (20.0 dBm)
* 5240 MHz [48] (20.0 dBm)
* 5260 MHz [52] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5280 MHz [56] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5300 MHz [60] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5320 MHz [64] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5500 MHz [100] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5520 MHz [104] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5540 MHz [108] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5560 MHz [112] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5580 MHz [116] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5600 MHz [120] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5620 MHz [124] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5640 MHz [128] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5660 MHz [132] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5680 MHz [136] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5700 MHz [140] (20.0 dBm) (radar detection)
* 5745 MHz [149] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5765 MHz [153] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5785 MHz [157] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5805 MHz [161] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)
* 5825 MHz [165] (20.0 dBm) (passive scanning, no IBSS)

Running "iw reg get" after "iw reg set NO"

country NO:
        (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
        (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS

The ultimate questions:
Am I correct in thinking that there should be 18 wi-fi channels available in Norway?

If I've understood this correctly, where does the change need to happen to correct the norwegian Wi-Fi channels? in the ath9k driver, in the openwrt code or somewhere else?

I'd like to both have a workaround to enable all the 18 channels on my routers, in addition to fixing this permanently by finding the right people who can fix this permanently (if I'm correct in that you should have 18 5GHz channels in Norway)

Edit

stinel@#openwrt wrote:

you need DFS / radar detection for most of the 5GHz channels
as that is currently not implemented in ath9k you can only use those channels where you don't need to use DFS

I can understand this, but in my theory, I should still be able to use channel 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60 & 64 without DFS, currently I can only use 36, 40, 44 & 48.

(Last edited by SlimG on 25 Oct 2010, 15:49)

Post #2
SlimG
25 Oct 2010, 19:34

After receiving some more help from stinel at #openwrt, I've now learned that the change for norway has to be entered in wireless-regdb.

I've made the following changes and generated a new regulatory.bin based on the current information on FOR 2009-06-02 nr 580:

country NO:
        (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 23)
        (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS

This gives me the ability to use the eight lower channels in 5 GHz frequency range that doesn't require DFS.

The only remaining annoyance is with the TX power, when I check "iw list", it says the maximum TX power for all my available channels are 20 dBm although "iw get reg" says 23 dBm, and wireless.radio1.txpower=27.

Question 1:
Is this happening because I've created my own unsigned regulatory.bin? or is there TX power limit in the hardware or driver?

Question 2:
If possible, where do I see the hardware/software TX power limit?

So in the mean time, I'll better do like other ath9k users out there on the interwebs: Start waiting for DFS (gives me 10 more channels) and TPC (let me increase TX power on the 5470 -> 5725 MHz frequency range from 27 dBm to 30 dBm)

Post #3
linuxb
25 Oct 2010, 22:15

Hello
Could you send the documentation and patch to the wireless-regdb mailing list?
http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/list … less-regdb

BTW, I have found that using the "ath-user-regd" decreases the signal strength by approx 10% (seen from the client side)

Post #4
SlimG
25 Oct 2010, 22:40

This is the email I sent to the linux-wireless@vger.kernel.org mailinglist:

It seems like NO is wrong according to Norwegian rules

This is how NO currently looks like in wireless-regdb-2009.11.25.tar.bz2
-------------------START-------------------
country NO:
        (2402 - 2482 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5170 - 5250 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5250 - 5330 @ 40), (N/A, 20), DFS
        (5490 - 5710 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
--------------------END--------------------

This is what the Norwegian rules say about general usage of frequencies for wi-fi:
Note: The following text is a translation from a subsection of the following document written in Norwegian:
http://www.lovdata.no/for/sf/sd/xd-20090602-0580.html#7
-------------------------------------START--------------------------------------
(3) the frequency band 5150-5350 MHz is authorized for indoor data transfer
including radio-based local area networks (WAS / RLAN) with a maximum radiated
power of 200 mW eirp the frequency use defined in the standard EN 301 893 If any
other use than indoor use, the average spectral density in the frequency band
5150-5350 MHz is limited to 10 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz range.

(4) the frequency band 5470-5725 MHz may be used for data transfer with maximum
radiated power of 1 W eirp Maximum average spectral density shall not exceed
50 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz band. The radio equipment shall implement transmit
power control (TPC) which provides an average attenuation of at least 3 dB. If
TPC is not in use, the maximum allowed radiated power and power density is 3 dB
lower than that following the first and second sentence. The radio equipment will
use Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard EN 301 893

(5) The frequency bands 5725-5795 MHz and 5815-5850 MHz for data transfer with
maximum radiated power of 4 W eirp Maximum average spectral density shall not
exceed 200 mW / MHz eirp in any 1 MHz band. The radio equipment shall implement
Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard EN 302 502 Radio
equipment shall transmit power control (TPC) which provides an average
attenuation of at least 3 dB. If TPC is not in use, the maximum allowed radiated
power and power density is 3 dB lower than that following the first and second
sentence. On the border between Norway and neighboring power density shall not
exceed -122.5 dBW / m 2 measured with a reference bandwidth of 1 MHz unless
otherwise stated in the coordination agreement.

(6) The frequency bands 5725-5795 and 5815-5850 MHz for point-to-point radio
links with maximum radiated power of 200 W eirp Maximum permitted power supplied
antenna is 1 W. The maximum average spectral density shall not exceed 10 W / MHz
eirp in any 1 MHz band. The concept of point-to-point radio links exclude all
forms of point-to-multipoint, omnidirectional systems and transmitters send the
same information located in the same place (sector antennas). The radio equipment
shall implement Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) as specified in the standard
EN 302 502 On the border between Norway and neighboring power density shall not
exceed -122.5 dBW / m 2 measured with a reference bandwidth of 1 MHz unless
otherwise stated in the coordination agreement.
--------------------------------------END---------------------------------------

Here is the link to google english-translated section mentioned above:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ … NwIZhFVA#7

According to that documentation, NO should probably look like this instead:
-------------------START-------------------
country NO:
        (2400 - 2483.5 @ 40), (N/A, 20)
        (5150 - 5350 @ 40), (N/A, 23)
        (5470 - 5725 @ 40), (N/A, 27), DFS
--------------------END--------------------

Question 1:
The norwegian laws also says that if TPC is available, then the maximum allowed TX power
of the 5470 -> 5725 MHz frequency range changes from 27 dBm to 30 dBm, I don't know how to write that in wireless-regdb.

Question 2:
The norwegian laws for the 5470 -> 5725 MHz frequency range seem to exceed the European restrictions in 802.11n-2009, I'm guessing that the upper 5725 MHz frequency needs to be decreased to comply with the European restrictions? if so, I'm not sure what frequency it should be decreased to.

Question 3:
The norwegian documentation also mentions these radio frequencies for wireless data transfer:
* 5725 -> 5795 MHz and 5815-5850 MHz: point-to-point radio links
* 17,1 -> 17,3 GHz:
* 57 -> 66 GHz:
Does these belong in the wireless-regdb as well?

I hope my limited knowlege doesn't cause anyone unreasonable much work,
I'm really trying to get better at this.

-Robert Grønning (Norway)

Should I send it to  wireless-regdb@lists.infradead.org as well?

The discussion might have continued from here.