I like to extend the WLAN experience in my home and like to setup a main router in the basement with 2-3 dumb/bridged access points on the other floors, which I like to connect over wire - but the ductwork for cables are already quite full and small, so I might have problems running ethernet cables.
Anyways, because fiber might be the future I like to run fiber cables instead (Fiber-in-the-Home - FITH )
Now, I don't want to put media converters in front of all access-points (to convert fiber to ethernet again), I'm looking for access points with either SFP (preferably SFP+) ports or alternatively some fiber connectors. But those are hard to find so far... Does anyone have some recommendations? So far I found:
Banana Pi R3 (has 2 SFP ports) - how does it perform?
Banana Pi R4 (has 2 SFP+ ports) - is only supported in snapshot releases so far.
ASUS AX89X (has an SFP+ port) - but only revision B seems to be supported in OpenWrt - but not sure if revision B is still the version on sale or ASUS already is on newer revisions.
Do you know of any other devices? Or have any experiences running fiber only?
This sounds terribly impractical to me. Ever considered slim cables? You can get "cat6a" AWG28 cable with 4mm outer diameter. That's a world of difference compared to the normal cat6+ cables, and not much worse than fibre cables.
You can do PoE over slim cat6a. You can't do that over fibre...
Perhaps I should consider slim cables, you are right, did not know such slim cables exist.
Was thinking those copper cables will end at 10G speed (and are usually quite power hungry @ 10G speed) and with faster and faster access points in the future, I feel we could see some fiber versions of it in future, ideally with 230/110V direct input, as I have power everywhere where I would place a ethernet or fiber connector.
In my view, any of them are overkill as dumb APs. As is fiber in the home (unless you really feel like going to 10gbit or above). FWIW, gl-inet mt3000 make nice dumb aps (I got mine for less than 50 usd) with 2.5 gbit uplink if you do not need other ports in that place.
The R4 makes a good uplink router though (I never bothered to mess with wifi cards as my fiber drop is in a not very convenient place for wifi but right next to the whole cat5 patch panel).
Edit: about future proofing, 10G is ridiculously fast. In fact my laptop just talks 1 gbit and I could easily run 2.5gbit there (in fact, think it's in fact patched to 2.5gbit as my main switch is 2.5gbit with 10g DAC to the R4) and can't be bothered to look into it. My ISP technically offers 25gbit for the same price as 10G and I sure do not want to deal with routing that...
I am usually wrong about market trends, so don't take my word for any of this. Just a few thoughts...
I really don't see the access point market moving towards fibre. Products with SFP+ slots are hard to find, as you point out. And most of them are more multi purpose routers than access point. To me, choosing fibre doesn't look like future proofing at all. It looks more like painting yourself into a corner where you'll always have a very limited set of access points to choose from.
As for power consumption - 2.5 Gbps phys aren't that bad and are plenty good enough for now. Don't think the a 10Gbps phy is very hungry compared to the radios capable of using that much bandwidth either. Copper has advantages like simple termination and PoE which are likely to outweigh any power savings for both end users and vendors.
In any case, I've always believed in making decisions based on the current need rather than the future. The future is so hard to predict
Let‘s see if my electrician can find small cables to fit in the tubes - so far the slimmest CAT 6a installable cable (without being a patch cable with attached connectors) I found is approx 5.6 mm in diameter.
You are right I often corner myself, as I like living on the edge on the other hand I often get trends right, but often is not always…
But if someone knows of other fiber/sfp wlan routers, please let me know. I found some more from AVM/Fritzbox, but they are not supported by OpenWrt…
Google only wants to point me to my local suppliers, but here are a couple of examples demostrating that much slimmer cables do exist:
I've used both of those (100 m isn't much when you easily can pull 5-6 parallell runs) with success. But do make sure to get matching plugs, keystone connectors etc. AWG28 is much too thin for normal connectors.
IMO you go fibre if you want to run MPO/MPT cables, 8 or 12 fibres in a compact package. Or you're so space constrained or it's a huge distance that using wavelength multiplexing will save money. i.e. you run a single fibre rather than two.... edit: ( this is under the assumption you're not trying to run over the length limit of copper cables...)
Another reason is if you need to be worried isolation/coupling because you're running close to mains electricity. i.e. in some areas you can run fibre with your mains but you can't have your (copper) network cable anywhere near it.
I would be cautious about thin cables and PoE. i.e. running any significant PoE load through 28AWG/30AWG is going to result in much higher heat load and losses in the cable. This can be exacerbated by bundling (i.e. multiple cables, or if it's in conduit) effects. You would also need to be mindful of the temperature rating of your conductor's insulation. I.e. sometimes cheap cables have 60 degree C ratings.
I don't see anything except really high end AP's needing > 2.5gbit or having SFP's etc. I also don't see why media converters aren't all that bad except for link status doesn't necessarily mean the link is up, which can be an issue with non LACP bonds.
Also one can instead of media converters or a router which has SFP/SFP+ when you can get a managed switch on both ends?
Another consideration is the cost and power consumption of 10G fibre SFP+, the cost of fibre, the power consumption of these SFP's and finally compatibilty with 2.5G/5G SFP to NBaseT as it's not guaranteed.
Thanks for all the additional feedback - I think I try to put fibers and if space allows also run a CAT 6e cable, so I could experiment with fibers. Perhaps I could swap spots in the home where the tubes are not so crowded.
As you mention, the tubes are full of 230V electricity cables and light-switch control cables so there might be some interference with copper, let's see.
Pretty sure that constitutes an electrical hazard. I'd highly recommend against having cat6a and 230v mains power in the same conduit. You want physical separation to reduce coupling. Please check with your local electrical/building regulations =S
But yeah it's a good justifcation for fibre if you have to have mains run along with it. No risk of having any voltages induced into your telecommunications equipment.
Yes definitely, my local electrician will do the cabling and depending on them I will see what is possible. Especially CAT 6e is only partially shielded (UTP) vs CAT 7 which might be better, but cables are even thicker.
At least where I am ELV/copper telecommunications cabling and LV are banned in the same conduit.
I've read documentation that if you go for shielded cables you can reduce the clearance requirements. Makes sense if the shield is grounded. Given you have LV there anyway not having PoE isn't too much of a concern I guess. Hence why fibre sounds like a good idea =)
I would go with OpenWrt x86 on Lenovo M720/920q with a Mellanox ConnectX-4 or newer NIC connected via SFP DAC to your 10G switch of choice, then to downstream devices.
Have tested a bunch of recent ARM routers and they aren't yet capable of handling 10Gbps traffic without offloads, and they are all so new that it'll take a long time for the code to land in mainline.
I have m920q with intel dinosaur x520 dual fiber, works awesome with esxi and some vm's , 10gig nat isn't a problem. I also have cx-4 dual 25gig but didn't have time to check it yet, my dual 40gig is too big for it, based on intel x710 .
Yes for needing offload for 10g NAT, wrong for long time until it will be supported (at least in some cases). The mt7988a in the BPI R4 got hardware offload in openwrt sometime this summer and I believe it's in mainline (starting 6.12 or 6.13), too.
I like to run fiber cables instead (Fiber-in-the-Home - FITH 
on the other hand I often get trends right, but often is not always…