VDSL modem/router with VoIP capability

Hardware Questions and Recommendations
9

Two, perhaps[0], but not five. Common ATAs are marginal in terms of the voltage and current they provide, whatever the (SOC-)vendor thought they could get away with - but always less than 'real' POTs (and 50 Hz, instead of 25 Hz, which is another problem for electro-mechanical ringers). The more phones you add (in parallel), these issues increase and becomes more emphasized - with five phones, you're pretty likely to miss calls.

If you're living in Europe, the O² Box 6431/ Arcadyan VGV7510KW22 might be an attractive device, which is supported by OpenWrt and provides two (supported via asterisk16-chan-lantiq) FXS ports - this works nicely on OpenWrt. Sadly the device itself is a bit low-end, but it's cheap (5-10 EUR) on the used market. It works decently as a SIP pbx/ ATA, running OpenWrt and asterisk - XOR as a simple VDSL2/ vectoring (up to profile 17b, but not 35b) modem, but not both; and it isn't really a good router/ AP either.

--
[0] but you don't want to connect multiple phones to a single ATA port, as that wouldn't allow internal connections between the phones - and parallel phones would allow eavesdropping.

1 Like
10

Thanks again, @mk24 and @slh. I am getting there.
Given the suggestions, I'm oriented towards:

  1. A used O2 Box 6431 (OpenWRT+Asterisk) - to use as ATA only.
  2. A used VSL2 modem/router that supports 35b and whose OEM software allows bridging mode - to use as modem only.
  3. A future-proof (new?) router, fairly powerful, with 4 gigabit LAN ports and plenty of Flash/RAM. Here I definitely want to go OpenWRT. I am used to make my own images on a Ubuntu host, so I can easily compile any selection of packages if it can be done easily with menuconfig.

Suggestions for 2 and 3?

11

There are only few options, Dartek's vigor165 seems to allow operation in bridge mode and profile 35b (while being lantiq/intel/maxlinear and not broadcom).

12

If you don't need profile 35b right now, I'd skip this requirement for the time being. Plain (used) vectoring (up to profile 17b) VDSL2 modems sell for a dime a dozen (under 10 EUR plus shipping), even a selection of OpenWrt compatible ones (e.g. the BT Home Hub 5 Type A, which regularly goes for around 8-9 GBP plus shipping). Profile 35b capable ones however are in a quite different price range, e.g. the afforementioned Draytek Vigor 165 for around 140 EUR (new).

1 Like
13

All right, I think I'll drop 35b for the time being.

As for the BT Home Hub 5 Type A you mention: it looks fine, but at the moment they only ship from the UK on eBay, which is slightly inconvenient because of the bulky, incompatible power connector as well as slightly more expensive shipment. Any other suggestions? OpenWRT is a plus, but not a requirement, as long as bridging is possible from the OEM management interface.

Now I only need some advice about the router, and I'm ready to call my Telecom/ISP :grin:

By the way, the interaction with this forum is really helping me understand/redefine my needs! Thank you.

14

I've placed bids on eBay on both a BT Home Hub 5 Type A (candidate modem) and an O2 Box 6431 (candidate ATA). The wall plug adapter for the BT Home Hub is likely to cost me almost as much as the box itself. Maybe I'm getting a compatible power supply with EU plugs instead. :laughing:

So all that's left now:

Any advice on a good, easily OpenWRT-able router? I would like it to have

  • At least 4 gigabit ethernet ports for LAN (WAN port could be 100 Mbit/s, but in perspective it'd better be gigabit as well: when VPlus/35 arrives in late 2020/early 2021, I'm going to get a new modem.
  • Decent wireless. I have a few dumb APs around, so max power or smart coverage isn't a requirement.
  • At least 1 USB port for drives etc (2 would be better).
  • Plenty of flash memory and RAM to stay reasonably future-proof

DSL/modem functionality is not required, obviously.

15

The PSU is not the issue, that's really bog-standard at 12V 1.5A. The problem is the barrel plug at the end of the cable. The HH5A is using an usual connector: 6.3mm outer diameter, 3mm inner diameter, 11mm length.

I went ahead and fixed myself an adapter by cutting off the barrel plug with some length and soldering a standard 5.5mm x 2.1mm female plug to the other side. Now I would be able to use one of the two dozen 12V PSUs laying around (I'm using the subjunctive because my HH5A has developed a loud high-pitched whine that makes it unusuable in living quarters.)

But then again you can just get an electrical adapter for ~€2 and call it a day.

Okay, now I'm slightly confused. The HH5A is and does all of that if you're willing to go through the (admittedly nontrivial) process of flashing OpenWrt to it.

16

Yeah. Me too.

If your ISP provides you with a modem, or if you can just buy a used modem from the local market or get one from a friend, then that should be fine and much easier.

It just doesn't make much sense to get into the trouble of flashing BT Homehub 5A with OpenWrt (and believe me, trying to get serial connection can be frustrating) just to use it as modem, and you can't use it with a third party ISP without flashing it (I think), and it might not give you the speed you want of you use it as a router (not sure about the maximum speed to be honest).

18

(I'd written a reply to @takimata's post, before noticing @Hegabo had chimed in, too. I extended it.)

@takimata, The cheapest electrical adapter Amazon will deliver within the month costs nearly 9€ when you include shipment (none available with Prime free shipping).

That's why I'd also looked up a Chinese PSU that features interchangeable barrel plugs, including the so-called Type B (6.3-3.0 mm) and promises 4A @ 12V for under 8€.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32941361090.html

As for the router, for some reason I'd just assumed the HH5A couldn't cope. Maybe I'm just being dumb. Thank you for waking me up, really. :blush:

(Was it actually that hard to reflash?)

@Hegabo My ISP doesn't provide me with a modem. They only sell mid tier all-in-one boxes that can't be upgraded to OpenWRT.

So you too suspect the HH5A might be unable to cope. On the other hand, I thought it'd be easy to reflash - easy enough to justify doing it 'just because I can' - also, I would be able to view/change the DSL parameters, and I would be sure it can be configured as a pure bridge. One of the HH5A's on eBay does have OpenWRT 19 already loaded anyway. I'm bidding on that one now.

I suspect I'll have to reflash it anyway: I prefer my own choice of packages to be integrated in the image, and I have a build system already up and running for other targets.

Maybe the best course of action could be just wait and see if I win the auction for the open sourced HH5A and see how well it does. What do you think? Any alternative hardware suggestion will be most welcome.

I'll need sqm to deal with Netflix and VoIP. and I have an unusually long list of MAC addr matching rules in the firewall (using ipset). At present, my old Buffalo WBMR-HP-G300H manages at ~7 Mb/s, with a healthy amount of free RAM - but I suspect the CPU is nearly maxed out in some situations. On the new router, I wouldn't mind trying to set up a Tor WAN interface in addition to the plain one.

19

@bill888 can hopefully tell you how much speed you can get from the BTHH5A. I am using it but my max line speed wouldn't let reach the maximum speed of the device.

Innitial flashing is hard, yes. You have to make a serial connection using a TTL adapter, and the points you need to connect to are very small.

Reflashing should be easy, as you would not need serial connection for that.

Though, to buy a flashed device and get it shipped to Europe would probably cost you around 20 to 25 euro. Add to that say 5 got the adapter or plug converter. It makes sense if you are going to use it as a router. Otherwise, I think any ISP modem should be fine.

20

As suggested by @Hegabo , it would perhaps be better to try and find a cheap modem in your country which support bridge mode. eg. Netgear DM200 or TPlink TD-W9970, and then use it with a more powerful (openwrt) router of your choice.

Your original list of requirements included support for USB drives. HH5A wouldn't be my first choice for USB if you intend to use it as a 'router'.

21

I am pretty confident that you would not be happy with the HH5 as all in one router under OpenWrt. In my limited testing it could not manage to to do sqm, may, pppoe, firewalling, WiFi, VDSL 50/10, all at the same time. It is now operating as bridged modem (under OpenWrt, bought it preflashed on eBay) on a vdsl2 100/40 link, and is capable of delivering that speed to my router. Depending on your load you might try it as a all-in-one router first, but I predict that it is not going to be fast enough, given your list of requirements.

22

@bill888 Thanks for your advice. I am still able to retract my bid on the HH5A. I've found a Netgear DM200-100us (likely just a few euros cheaper, if anything) and a TPlink TD-W9970, a bit more expensive - however, it's a UK version with EU power adapter included, so it's no big improvement on the HH5A for my use case.

If, as I foresee, the device to fill this "modem slot" is to be used in pure bridge mode and supports this operation mode, I figure it doesn't make a big difference which one I pick, apart from a few euros of expense and/or convenience issues (power plug etc). Am I right in thinking so?

@moeller0 Thanks for chiming in with specific experience about the HH5A. I suppose I'm back to my original idea of getting a new router in addition to used equipment for external modem and ATA duties.

Can you give me a few router models that would fit the bill and would still be good with the increased traffic when my ISP eventually (hopefully soon) gets to provide Vplus/35?

23

If that is comparte to a pre-flashed BTHH5A and it's your best alternative then I'd get the BTHH5A. I mean even if it's not ideal for your requirement, you would still have it as a backup router and AP in car something happens to your other router, for the few euros difference.

Though, I am still not able to figure why you can't just get an ISP modem. Those are usually everywhere dirt cheap.

24

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, @mhegab.

It seems cheap VDSL2 modems aren't that easy to find on eBay right now. Maybe it's because of my uninformed searching, but I've been looking around for the last 2-3 days, and the real cheap ones are all ADSL/ADSL2 modem-routers. For the time being, I'm still going for that preflashed HH5A - it still seems the best that can be found on eBay in that price range (likely around 25-35 euros incl. shipping). I'll retract and bid on something new if I find a cheaper option, but I doubt I can shave much more than, say, 10€, so I'm not losing any sleep on this.

More importantly, I'm still hoping for a few suggestions about a reasonably powerful router that is OpenWRT friendly - as in, no special tinkering (especially no soldering) required for the first flash. The tentative specs are listed a few posts above ( VDSL modem/router with VoIP capability )

25

If you get the BTHH5A, and you have possibly a Raspberry Pi 4 lying around with a USB to ethernet adapter, you can use the BTHH5A as a modem connect it to the RPi4 to do the touring magic, then take it back to the BTHH5A on a different port to do switch/AP part. it could even be possible with just one port and one cable but I didn't try either.

Edit: the BTHH5A WiFi range isn't good, particularly if you live in a concrete building.

26

I don't have a spare Raspberry Pi 4 around though :laughing:

And actually, I don't mind shelling off for a dedicated router, as long as it stays useful for years as my trusty Buffalo WBMR-HP-G300H has.

27

So, I do own a turris omnia, and while it is a bit expensive and works best with team turris own version of OpenWrt (installing and using stock OpenWrt seems possible but not necessarily for the faint of heart) it allows traffic shaping and firewalling/NAT up to 500/500 Mbps bi-directional traffic, pretty nice for a small box. It uses ath10K radio's so will probably profit from the recent AQL airtime queueing limit work on that wifi driver once either the patches make it into OpenWrt 19 or turris OS is based on OpenWrt20 (which is neither ready nor announced yet). I happen to be quite impressed by the omnia, but others here have less happy experiences with it, so it really depends on what you want to do with it.

But, personally I am really tempted to go the RPI4B+USB3-Gigabit-Ethernet dongle route (I already bought an Ethernet-dongle :wink: )

28

There never have been "cheap VDSL2 modems" because ISPs never gave them out to customers*, they always went for a full IAD they could control remotely, lock down to their service, tie their VoIP lines into, and would free them from having to support random modem + router combinations.

For the "consumer" or "prosumer" market, there are just a handful of makers out there that even bother to produce VDSL2 modems (Draytek and Allnet come to mind.) And I'm pretty sure that internally they are also very much just stripped-down router hardware. In fact, the prime search result, the Allnet ALL-BM100VDSL2 "bridge modem" runs ... on the same Lantiq VRX268 as a HH5A.

Of course there are manufacturers for the professional telecommunications equipment market (Bintec for example), but their devices are well beyond what one would need (or want to pay for) for a home network.

*) That's not entirely true for the very, very early days of VDSL. I do remember Deutsche Telekom giving out VDSL2 modems at some point so their customer could supplement their existing Telekom IAD. Those were indeed cheap and plentiful, and are almost entirely useless nowadays because they can only deal with non-vectoring lines up to 50 mbit.

29

That's good input from all of you, thanks.

@moeller0 I looked up the Turris Omia and really like it. It's expensive, but I could go with that if it delivers and gives me years of service. My only issue is about the software. I really would prefer stock OpenWRT, which seems not able to support the hardware fully at the moment. Besides, the reports on flashing are a bit inconclusive: some people had trouble, some say it's quick and easy.

@Hegabo A Raspberry Pi 4 would be good too, but the single ethernet port is unsatisfactory. I'd have to use up at least one, (more likely two) of the BT HH5A's LAN ports for the loopback, which doesn't fit my use case. The Pi 4 could be my favorite choice if I could get 5 ports on it (1 WAN, 4 LAN). Is it possible that you know?

@takimata That it mostly my experience too.

While looking up the Turris, I ran across the Linksys WRT3200ACM-EU, which looks quite attractive. The Marvell chips seem to be supported by OpenWRT without problems. One doubt I have is its OpenWRT page ( https://openwrt.org/toh/linksys/linksys_wrt3200acm ). It says

While only 1 revision of the hardware is listed, silently (around Nov 2017) the flash chip was updated in production causing earlier firmwares to be incompatible with newer devices.

Does it mean that if I happen to get a later hardware revision, I'm stuck with the stock software and that's it, or that I can build a newer (not earlier) firmware image that will fit it nicely? I found a good used occasion on Amazon at under 180€, so I'm tempted to just buy it, and possibly return it if the hardware's not compatible.

Please advise. Your collective experience is really helping me.