Planning communications for a new house. Opinions welcome

You might consider incorporating some elements of Lennar Corp.'s Smart Home. I have the 2018 version using Ruckus Wireless APs and POE 1gb switch, using an OpenWrt edge device, & a Ring Elite lan wired video doorbell; it works perfectly. The 2021/22 version uses EERO pro wifi6 mesh routers. OpenWrt can still be used in an edge firewall device, by using EERO bridge mode. Great fortune with your new home network ! Lennar Smart Home 20121: https://investors.lennar.com/press-releases/2021/02-02-2021-130518043

Plan for change and do as little as possible.

As others have indicated (and I think you are doing), I'd plan wall (both high and low as well as possible ceiling for a wireless APs) outlet location and condiut size. I would put nothing in the outlets or conduits and cover them with a "blank" face plate to start.

If this home will have an easily accessible basement and/or attic, I'd have the wall conduits simply open to the attic and basement. Who knows what wire (or fiber) will be used or going where 15 years from now. Pulling wire through conduit (especially corrugated plastic tube) plumed to a central location (that you might want to change in 5 years) is a pain. I'd get the largest diameter conduit/tube i could fit through the walls.

Have fun.

EDIT I have had mice in my basement (fiber glass insulation makes good homes for them). I'm really glad they did not make it up my attic before I "evicted" them. You might want to have attic and basement tube "openings" go to junction box that can be sealed except for the wires.

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Exactly this, don't get into the details now - prices may be completely different in 2-3 years (multi-gig switches are still way overpriced) and design flexible enough for the inevitable change.

The only things you need to consider early, is the number and locations of your network runs (and the 'communications hub, namely where the WAN comes in, where backbone switches are supposed to be, etc.) and outlets, to be done roughly alongside the first fix electrics. Don't think about actual devices or brands yet, especially when considering "above-1000BASE-T", pricing is still prohibitive to put 10 GBit/s on every outlet, just in case (cat-6a will do).

Some random thoughts:

  • think about where computers and TVs are going to be, give them 2 dedicated ethernet ports each
  • 5- and 6 GHz wireless don't have good wall penetration (and 60 GHz wireless none at all), so make sure to have the wiring for one AP per room (I'm not saying you should actually put an AP into every room (on the contrary, start small and extend as necessary), just have the wiring/ ethernet port at a convenient spot along the upper walls/ on the ceiling)
  • phone, one ethernet port (if your ISP uses VoIP deployments, great for an SIP phone, if not, cat-5 will carry analogue phone signals just fine). Yes, DECT is handy, still think about ~1 location for a phone per storey (will still be handly to connect an SIP DECT base)
  • at least 2 'unused' ethernet ports per room in addition to the above, on opposite walls
  • consider to have wireless overspill into the backyard and around the house, outdoor APs are expensive and wireless security cameras or your barbecue party appreciate WLAN signals to be available).
  • don't forget the garage (Tesla leading the way, pulling software updates OTA, 'smart' charging point, etc.)
  • same for the the boiler room, heating is going smarthome, as do hot water storage and solar stuff.
  • thinking about smarthome, don't forget the laundry room or kitchen
  • depending on the size of the house, you may want to plan with one central hub/ cabinet per storey (and 2-4 trunk cable/ LAG groups between them; especially with many PoE powered devices) - for smaller ones get all cables to one central location.
  • the networking equipment wants to be in a dry and not too dusty environment of reasonable room temperatures (garage can be a bit borderline, laundry room or kitchen are too humid, greasy and dusty) - think of cooling and noise production (living room and bedrooms are out) and have a power outlet inside.
  • at this point I don't see fibre as inhouse cabling, the prosumer gear is still building on top of copper ethernet (2.5GBASE-T, 5GBASE-T and 10GBASE-T); fibre is a good idea for the outside (no danger of lightning strikes or different voltage potentials) and can be useful as trunk ports between switches.
  • for the smarthome nuts^wenthusiasts, one ethernet port per window (electric shutters, alarm sensors, etc.), lighting fixtures and light switch each… (this gets prohibitively expensive fast)
  • TVs still predominately want to be fed with 75 ohm coax (be it satellite, terrestrial antenna or cable), yes there are ways to convert that to IP TV and that's probably going to be the future, but at this point you still want 1-2 coax runs to (all of-) your TVs; in addition to the 1-2 ethernet ports mentioned before.

Yes, that will mean you end up with 25-50 cables coming to your communications cabinet/ rack (that's why one per storey might come in handy), keep in mind you don't have to connect them all at day one. Start small, a passively cooled 24 port smart-managed switch (1 GBit/s) will get you a long way, a switch can be replaced easily (once needed) - the cables in the walls are another story.

While costs for running cables and mounting outlets accumulate, doing that in the first fix is way cheaper than having to retrofit them later - and wireless is the worst of all choices. As mentioned before, plan ahead, remain flexible and keep spare conduits in reserve.

Yes, the above may sound a bit like a mad man's dream, think about it - it isn't…

--
As an aside, I am running OpenWrt on an x86_64 system as a router that could run OPNsense easily, it does the job very well.

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If your network box ends up looking cluttered, please think about possibly simplifying down to something like in this picture. This is a 2018 Lennar smart home network for a 2000 square foot, two story home. Ten years ago I went all wireless in a different wired home, no problems!

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Thanks for all opinions.

Yes, it is a bit early to think in specific models, but it is good the know about options and experiences.

Now I know that x86_64 systems may be a great option to use with openWRT, better than raspberry.

But at this stage planning the cable runs would be the most important task, and where to put the conectors.

I will put coas in the salon and in the atic, and may be other place.

Is it possible to use the same tube for coax and a couple of ethernet cable or it is difficult to pass the cable?

Some points at the ceiling would be good too (for APs) and some in exterior (I plan to let there electric cables too in order to be able to extend it in the future, if I need to add lights or something like that).

May be I don't pass all the cable at first, but at least have enough tubes for it and in the appropiate places.

When I have a more detailed plan of the house I will ask for help about best places to put everything.

Well the laundry here is usually at the kitchen, just a washing machine.
I plan to put it in a room adosed to the house, near the kitchen. And it can be a good place to add telecomm near it.
It willbe well ventilated and place for hanging clothes will be in exterior.

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My senior year in high school, NCAR offered a cradle connection for local high schools. We used rolls of paper punched with holes on a Teletype to prepare our code assignments. Later, at CU, I packed IBM punch cards to the Engineering Building that linked via Laser to the mainframes on East Campus. The laser did not do well during snow storms.

If I were building a home and had openwalls, I would run plastic conduit into well placed wall boxes. A fish tape and you would be ready for whatever transmission modality comes along. Also recommend browsing the smart home options including an uplink to your garage door opener, security cameras , etc.

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Apologies for commenting again. I would strongly consider copying smart home builders in your own country, or region. There's no point running lots of copper line, and ending up behind the winning team, which will be highly dependable multi-gig wifi 6, wifi 6e, and wifi 7. Just sayin' . (Unless you have many microwave ovens that run continuously). I'm having great fun with these smart homes, & rarely run a piece of lan wire. Smart home gizmos are very cheap now, balancing prices between ebay and amazon shopping. Pax vobiscum. https://stevessmarthomeguide.com/home-networking-basics/

I don't trust wireless at all.
It is a good solution when there is no other solution and you need connection. But wireless is most of the times problematic and not reliable.

Wifi6 may be quick int the sort distance but not more reliable or noise prone in the long run.

And the IOT world (at least in security) is the worst place in my opinion to use wireless solutions: you can eliminate all the protections in one run with a simple frecuency inhibitor from "aliexpress".

When there are long cable runs and old instalations, wireless may be the best options.

Planning for the future and from scratch, wireless is not the best option at all, and I will try to keep it to the minimum and only if cable expenses go high or for needed points.

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Maybe, maybe not.... in the traffic shaping/AQM department OpenWrt is actually pretty much in the top tier. After the wireguard/FreeBSD pfsense dramolett I would be thinking twice before committing to pfsense (but then I do not need any of their advanced features so that is easy for me to say). And there is OpenSense as "alternative" if you want something else besides OpenWrt.

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FreeBSD ports (package repo) does have a kernel module which is just as "official" as the one for OpenWrt (Linux) so no worries at all. https://www.freshports.org/net/wireguard-kmod/

OpenWRT is certainly capable but it's not ideal/does not always bring the full potential for all applications and/or hardware platforms. It's great for cheap APs but I'm not sold on maintenance especially if its off site but that's me valuing time.

Looking briefly at the RPI4 Community build thread I do start to wonder when you need to use userland software to fix kernel/driver limitations (like irqbalance) and other somewhat strange things.

@anon80727944
I think your ideas are good in general unless you're on a shoestring budget, pfsense and/or an OS that doesn't target rather limited embedded devices does offer a much better experience on somewhat powerful hardware and the upgrade/maintence path.

Just to be clear, OpenWrt runs fine on x86 as well and covers all of the above.

I mean, of course, it's always nice to have alternative implementations and also Linux isn't all that great in every aspect. But pfSense?

So, of course, shit happens. Everywhere. But I get the smell and I can see how that happened. I'd get nowhere near it.
Plus people might want things like MAP-T or MAP-E for DSlite in 2021.

If you want BSD, opnSense may be a good idea.
If you want something with commercial support and automated updates, but still open source, take a look at Turris devices.
edit: if you want high-performance hardware which runs OpenWrt, take a look at IEI Puzzle M90x.

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OpenWrt runs on x86, it is however quite limited in terms of performance due to current hardware (arch) targets, (pre)set optimization and to some extent packaged software out of the box which has been been up for discussion before. Due to what OpenWrt mainly targets you still have to work around a lot of limitations so it's a stretch unless you plan to package/re-package quite a bit on your own but if that's the case you might just go for something that already covers most of it ootb and have more performance oriented optimization.

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Definitely run conduit if you can. I don't think there's much point in going overboard with the initial cable drops: a couple of Cat6A pulls where it makes sense and coax where you think you'll actually use it. Leave a few pull strings in each conduit and it'll be a cinch to scale or upgrade when the time comes.

Under no circumstances would I commit to a wireless-only install. I have a small home (~150 m2) and even then I have never experienced anything close to full-gigabit speeds over WiFi, even with 802.11ax. Mesh networks might help there but with a wireless backhaul you're only compounding WiFi's latency issues. At the very least I'd want strategically-located cable drops to provide a wired backhaul for a mesh setup. Wireless has come a long way but it's hard to imagine it ever matching a wired connection for sheer predictability/dependability. Just my two cents. :slight_smile:

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All I can say is, Ring, Lennar, and DR Horton(1st largest home builder in U.S.) are building homes with inclusions like these, and maybe wire to three rooms, and it all just works! Why fall behind the times? https://ring.com/lennar

Because it is much simpler to not use installed cables than having to run cables post-hoc? WiFi is okay for what it is, but if it isn't it is good to have alternatives.... And the biggest issue I see is to make sure to install enough cable ducts/tubes at the right places (with acceptable turn radii and preferable pre-loaded with pull wires/string).

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In my area, home builders have been using electricity for kitchen and not installing gas.

Vitro kitchens are the tendency. Everybody wants them, but not having gas conducts at home is not a better option than having them even if you do not use them.

They have saved a lot of money selling you what a modern home you have for having inductive or vitro kitchens and not having that old conducts at home. And they have saved a lot of money not installing them in the homes they sell.

Now electricity prices have reached the sky and all people who has no gas have no alternative (well gas has gone high too).

Home builders make what people asks for and what makes money for them.

I will lay as many cabling as I can afford and makes sense, and then put wifi AP only where it is really needed.

Wifi mesh is not a better alternative than cabling and switches, just a convenient option when you have the need of connection in disperse places or many mobile devices and you cannot get there using cable.

By the way, at leas with openWRT and the routers I have, wifi Fast Transtitions do not work with every devices, there are many android (<=10) devices that simple do not connect if you hav 802.11r (fast transitions) and 802.11w (management packets protection) activated at the same time and yet others (may be Android 11) that do not connect if you disable 802.11w so you have no way to have them all happy.

Problems with WIFI roaming Fast transitions/Frame protection in some devices - Installing and Using OpenWrt / Network and Wireless Configuration - OpenWrt Forum

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Have a read of that and think about what/when you are doing. What you are planning is more like an enterprise class deployment rather than a home affair.

Wired will ALWAYS beat out wifi. Hands down. Thus your plan for doing conduit and backhauls is fine.
Having your AP's hardwired will save issues in the long run. I've had to support mesh systems in buildings with no backhauls and its not fun.

Dedicated devices are going to be better long term. Having separate router, switch, wifi means later upgrades are less disruptive. "combined" type force compromises. If you are wiring rooms then a 24/48 port switch is going to be better to use as your backbone and then hand that off to a dedicated router. Ubiquiti or maybe something like the R4S.

I bought mine back in march and it was bit more costly than i wanted but combined with a ubiquiti wifi point? it completely replaced my BT Hub5 (cos its wifi was crap at going throu concrete walls). The R4S barely blips its cpu vs the 2core hub which would lag on updating AGH. I also added a small switch to deal with other wired runs. If I need more ports later I will just upgrade to a PoE multiport switch. (I don't have cameras now but may add in time)

The biggest issue is where to get one. For the 4 GB RAM - Combo with Metal Case :

America - https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=284 - $82.00
China - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001831487845.html - £88

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Additionally 2.5gb and 5gb are still really niche right now. "Home" varients only really started appearing in 2020. Most are still enterprise class and thus cost. However if you start with 1Gb switch for now then a rip and replace to 2.5/5 or even 10gb when cheaper switches come out. It may even be cheaper to buy an ex enterprise 10gb switch as they migrate to fibre.

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No shi*t, it is amazing actually how long these roughly a decade old MIPS router SoCs kept up... I hope the current crop of run of the mill routers will be useful as long.

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Its only due to OpenWrt that i kept using it as long as i did. However I switched to Ubiquiti AC-Lite for wifi and its night and day in terms of performance. I could load OpenWrt onto it but I actually prefer Ubiquiti's firmware at present. They are stabilising V5 nicely now and i just run a docker with the controller on it. Its currently running on a pi elsewhere but with the R4S i could easily host it on the R4S router instead.