OpenWrt One - celebrating 20 years of OpenWrt

I think the developers already answered that (probably on the mailing list), they are not planning a kickstarter or other crowdfunding.

Given the above, I am not sure such activism would be appreciated, especially if not coordinated before.

Respectfully, one of the core developers of this project opened this thread in their forum asking 'If the community likes the idea outlined below in greater details'. This thread is pretty clearly and on purpose asking an explicit question about hardware.

Now, your opinion regarding that question is just as valid (or invalid) relevant (or irrelevant) as everybody else's here, but maybe let others make their case, just as you did? Not that I assume many here will be swayed one way or the other unless they already lean in that specific direction.

I just went through all posts in this thread, and I am pretty sure you misattribute things to @krazeh that he is not responsible for, maybe re-check the evidence that lead you to that conclusion? At least in the public record @krazeh did nothing of the sort you seem to claim...

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I have limited experience with all this but I think it's a bad idea.

It will just confuse people who are just learning about OpenWRT thinking it's just on that specific hardware and quickly lose interest.

That old saying of if it's not broke don't fix it comes to mind. Project seems to have went well for 20 years being only software so why change it now. The OP is also talking about being under $100 but I'm guessing this means like $90 or so. With those hardware specs why on earth would you buy this when something like the Flint 2 exists with way better specs and more ports for basically $100 on sale. I feel like the device would have to be about $60 if it was to happen.

I already said exactly that BEFORE you responded with the above quote, thanks for supporitng my ccomment - I guess you didn't realize you did!

That is a consideration, but you have to be pretty dedicated to running an alternative firmware on a router to even look into any of the Big Three (OpenWRT, DD-WRT, and FreshTomato) in the first place, so I'm not convinced that would be much of a factor.

I'm far more worried about developer inattention on commercially successful router hardware that is already widely distributed.

Suppose the BannanaPi project gets approved, and they distributed 10,00 of the devices - while Linksys's next product distributes 100,000 devices.

The project will be pressured to spend time on that which won't be spent supporting the Linksys. Result - while 10K devices will have openwrt on them, a potential for far more will be lost.

The problem in a nutshell is wifi6 - more accurately, the bugaboo/spectre of wifi6

the problem with building wifi APs is in the nature of wifi itself. There is no more available radio spectrum - go to any dense area and there's hundreds of wifi APs broadcasting - and (at least in the US) the FCC mandates that new wifi is not permitted to disrupt signals of existing wifi. So the new wifi chips are all compatible with the old ones - and will back-rev to the older protocols when they see those broadcasts - and the end result is not only is there NOT any new spectrum available, but the newer radio chips aren't any faster than the older ones. But wait - there's even worse. Wifi bandwidth is directly related to frequency - higher bandwidth needs higher frequencies - but higher frequencies go shorter distances. The newest wifi6 standards might go to a gigabit - but only to a distance of maybe 5 feet.
So the upshot of all of this is - you can drop $200USD on a brand new wifi router - and get ZERO throughput benefit over a 4 year old wifi router.
So from a hardware viewpoint how to companies like Netgear continue selling hardware?
They do it by lying to the consumers telling them the new kit is better than the old kit - when it's not.
Consumers aren't completely stupid so these companies do things like quit releasing firmware updates for 2-3 year old gear. That then forces people to discard old gear and buy new gear. Not so much in the home but it's really bad in the corporation - older gear won't pass security audits and so even though it's working fine it has to be replaced.
The Big 3 router projects really screw this up. By keeping 4-8 year old gear fully updated, it keeps that gear in competition with new gear the hardware makers release.
As a result the hardware makers have gotten nastier and nastier with releasing programming info.
Broadcom for example does not since they want to keep selling new versions of SoC's. And their consumers - Netgear, TP-Link, etc. - also want that and are no help pressuring them to release specs.
The only way to respond to this is by force. This is why the FSF was created - to use legal threats to help pry open specs from people who sell these SoCs and use free Linux software to run on them. This is also why OpenWRT is even thinking of screwing around with hardware. They think if they can get a hardware device on the market they will push how it's open with the thought that customers will clamor for open gear, and that clamoring will pressure companies like Netgear and Broadcom to tell customers that they will open their stuff too. This is why they are working with MediaTek - a company that competes with Broadcom - but has a much smaller market share. MediaTek opens its data to get customers who are demanding that and won't buy Broadcom.
The Big 3 are divided on how to respond to this. FreshTomato's response is just to keep it's head down, use the same kernels that the major makers like Netgear use, the binary blob drivers they use, and support a limited and older selection of gear. DD-WRT's response has been for their chief developer to sign NDA's with Broadcom for certain chips to obtain programming data allowing those to be used with slightly newer kernels, but unfortunately Broadcom seems unwilling to do this - yet - with it's wifi6 chips. OpenWRT's response has been to wring their hands and for a long time push users to hardware that uses MediakTek stuff.

The decision to try to compete head to head with the closed source SoC vendors like Broadcom and their customers like Netgear, with this BannanaPi project+MediaTek project, is for sure better than just the hand-wringing that's been going on. But I feel they are not fully utilizing the FSF's power. It's frankly disgusting when you open up a brand new commercially sold router and find OpenWRT in there along with a ton of binary blob drivers from the SoC vendor which make it impossible to use with the public version of OpenWRT. That's precisely why the DD-WRT developer split from OpenWRT so many years ago, he threw up his hands and decided half a loaf is better than nothing. The FSF should be pressuring these SoC vendors and telling them look, your silicon would be trash if it wasn't for Linux so the least you can do is open source the drivers for your older SoC's that aren't being used commercially anymore. They should be pressuring the router vendors to knock off nonsense like making boot loaders in these devices only load encrypted firmware (a regrettable development that has happened in the cell phone arena) without assistance distributing keys, like what was done in the x86 arena when Microsoft forced the manufacturers to release BIOS that would allow turning off secure boot and worked with Linux to get secure boot support in Linux. But OpenWRT seems unwilling to push the FSF to do this and has hit on this alternative of trying to compete in the router vendors backyards.

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You do know each device has it's separate developer, the Openwrt router will have Openwrt Official team working on it while other developers like me focus on mass production routers such as Linksys, Asus and so on

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let's say BPi & OpenWRT coalition gets successful. When other brands see that success, won't they be forced to change their policies and sell more open source friendly devices?
But of course, the OpenWRT device will have to satisfy the majority first

Agreed! The reason I use GLI net routers is because of the interface. I can recommend their routers to anyone because the UI is extremely easy to use, even for the elderly.

With all due respect to the devs, I don't think Open WRT needs another router.

It seems like the devs main goal with OpenWRT is to put the OS on any old crappy router in existence under the sun.

Rather, for the 20th bday, I would love if the developers could focus on giving us a modern interface, with easier to use functionality. Such as access point mode, maybe vlans, Network DNS not hidden under advance settings :thinking:

I've been using OpenWRT for over 10 years and the painful part is the UI. It feels beyond cluttered. It's not as intuitive as to something like what GLInet, Asus, TP link, etc.

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It's called themes, there's one called argon and that's quite modern

I'd like to point to some more FAQs posted by John on the list a few days ago: http://lists.openwrt.org/pipermail/openwrt-devel/2024-January/042100.html

I've the feeling that there's a slight misconception here about who is involved in OpenWrt One and the project's intended scope. The One is an individual initiative led by @blogic with some input from a few other fellow developers. R&D costs are already covered privately and there's no plan to make any profit with that. Focus of the design is robustness and simplicity while being as open and supportable as reasonably possible, there is no desire or intention to offer a stronger/better/more featureful/cheaper option to existing boards - the One rather aims to scratch some personal itches and double as a donation vehicle for OpenWrt.

OpenWrt as a firmware project will only be involved insofar as that it shall receive a certain percentage of the revenue of each sold unit and that it endorses the use of the OpenWrt trademark. Neither is the entire OpenWrt project switching direction to hardware building now, nor will the One suddenly shift attention away from the usual ongoing development work. The One will be supported as yet another device on a best effort basis, no preferential treatment, special features or specific OpenWrt editions planned.

Usability improvements and ui modernization are topics outside of the scope of this private hardware building initiative.

Feedback regarding the initial OpenWrt One project proposal was good enough that John decided to start a formal vote now, asking for the projects endorsement of this initiative so that details can be hashed out and next steps being taken.

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i'm not sure if mt7981 is mt7986 but with two core disabled.

One port is 1GBit/s capable, while the
other features a speed up to 2.5GBit/s. This is a limitation of the
chosen SoC.

While i understand the limitation of SoC but IIRC the SoC is capable upto 2x2.5gbe so i think its possible to has 2x2.5gbe instead 1x1gbe+1x2,5gbe. And I wish the M.2 slot has more power since some AX(E) card are power hungry. btw, is it possible to add SD slot?

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Someone needs an additional AP?

I thought you were proposing to add sort of an OpenWrt Two that is just an AP, but I might have misunderstood your point.

Then buy another One (pun intended)

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Anyone interested can see how the devs are voting here: https://openwrt.org/voting/2024-01-openwrt-one

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Happy Birthday OpenWrt!
I wish to thank ALL the devs and testers for a wonderfull system!

I would like to see this hardware selection expanded to include a 'killer' router,
one that doesn't have pci/usb, ethernet limitations.
Shrug, I guess that would be an x86 hardware selection of some type?

Now I've read that page I have a far clearer understanding of the intended aims and I entirely agree with them.

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there are already 24 :+1: (out of ~40 devs) on the mail list so I believe we can consider the vote in favor of

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For me those specs make no sense. Have 2.5G port + NVME but poor CPU.
I would rather buy something like this:

IMHO most hardcore Openwrt Poweruser would spend more than 100$ to get something future proof and powerful in order to tinker. There are tons of cheap openwrt compatible devices out there.

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You can buy a banana PI BPi-R4 thats a bit better if you want

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Banana Pi to me is a development hardware for building own appliances. A single board computer for your custom project. Customize, buy and build your own cooling, power supply, antennas, software, whatever you like. Not a user focused out of the box ready to run router.

I hope OpenWrt One will be a ready to use router with factory installed well engineered passive cooling solution, antennas, case and everything ready to run as OpenWrt wireless router out of the box. Plug in the power supply and ethernet cable and start setting your configuration. Not have to build your own cooling solution, worry about component temperatures, the right case, choosing matching antennas and more.

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