LEDE Showcase page

Let me put that one to rest quickly. NEVER. We (at least, I) cherish all the work that people are putting into this. By hashing out these alternative approaches, we are get to the core of our ideas.

re: what we say about LEDE on the home page. I am becoming fairly comfortable with the text on https://lede-project.org/playground/start2. It addresses the major points you mention (security, extensibility, updates, as well as security and support). It includes a few specific teasers about what you could do with it. And that section is less than a screen-full, so I don't feel that it's overlong.

As to the question of whether it's worth your time to take a whack at improving that text... I think the sense of the group is:

  • We want a fair representation of the LEDE project for the home page.
  • Short and punchy is good, since it keeps the reader engaged with information they understand/can relate to. (I vote for it, anyway.)
  • We want to keep away from categorical, unsupported superlatives (best performance, best security, etc.) because they sound like marketing puffery.
  • On the other had, we should clearly call out places that LEDE does excel.
  • We also are reluctant to tout features that haven't necessarily been incorporated/proven, or won't ship in the initial stable release.
  • I think there are no dreadful choices anymore - we've eliminated those by identifying better ways to talk about LEDE.

Finally, I want to point out that I'm not striving for consensus here: I don't think it's necessary (or even possible) for every member of the team to wholeheartedly endorse every word on the home page.

Instead, I would ask that we seek wording that we all can live with "on Day One".

We will have a better understanding of what the site should say once the first stable release ships. After the software has been out for a month or two, we can reflect whether the words that are on the home page match how we feel, or we can update them as needed.

Does this make sense? Thanks.

That's also what I'm thinking: The most important points are in, and the length is adequate to the message we want to convey. There's not much that can be taken away from it.

@stangri Maybe you just go ahead, create playground/start3 and show us what you have in mind.

BTW: What could be longer is the
Things you can do with LEDE page. Twice as much usecases wouldn't hurt, IMO.

Seriously, @richb-hanover, @tmomas you guys should try a 13" laptop once in a while. :wink: On my screen it takes about 80%. BUT, if you're happy with the amount of information posted there, I'll just brush up what there is already.

I have a question on customization: I think we need to add that Web UI is translated into many languages and themes are also available. Given the short list of themes and overall their irrelevance to majority of the users, I don't think it should be added to the start page. Localized UI could be a big thing tho. What do you guys think?

The problem I'm concerned about is that if we list literally everything important on the start page, then it makes no sense to duplicate its content adding not very significant things on "Full list of reasons why LEDE kicks ass" page.

You're right about the screen space consumed. But I am OK using that space to say why people should consider LEDE, because that feels like the most important message on the home page.

I am conflicted on the customization/localization of the pages quite yet. It's cool that we're attracting serious attention, but I promise the top-level pages will continue to change rapidly as we push out the first stable release. I guess I would vote against anything that encourages more localization work (the cool kids call it l10n, 'cuz there are 10 characters between the first and last letters. i18n is "internationalization") until we're happy with those top-level pages, if only to avoid asking people do so much rework.

I am agnostic on themes. Black text on white background makes my old-white-guy-with-worsening-eyes sensibilities happy.

I see your point. Maybe we should 'keep our powder dry' on https://lede-project.org/playground/start2, and not have links off to each separate feature. Instead, we could have a single "Get all the details..." link to the showcase page (https://lede-project.org/playground/showcase_stangri)

Are there other opportunities to do this on other points in that list?


Where is that list? What does it contain?
Go ahead, create it in the playground, fill it with your proposal, then let's discuss here in the forum.

Based mostly on @richb-hanover work: https://lede-project.org/playground/why_use_lede_full_list

Who can help with remaining TODOs there? I'm sure it's not the complete list and can be appended, maybe over time.

Some of the wording in what I've added I'm not quite happy with, but overall I've removed the hesitancy in the message (like "many people think" and "might work better" and "you may stay on current") and technical lingo which was taking space without providing additional value to the message (unpatched bugs = bugs; attack vectors = attacks).

Security and Support & Maintenance look kinda lonely without the in-line description. Any suggestions?

So no feedback/volunteers to help out with the few remaining TODOs in the above?

If the language/wording looks OK, I can edit the playground start in the same way so that the changes can be pushed to /start.

Thanks @stangri for poking this thread. Since we're moving toward a release, it's time to get the home page in order so that we put our best foot forward for this "re-launch".

That said, I've kind of lost track of where we are. (Maybe too much turkey/eggnog...) We have produced several alternative "home pages" in the last week or two. They all share the basics, with emphasis on different aspects of the project.

I am still fond of https://lede-project.org/playground/start2 (after all, I edited tmomas' first draft :slight_smile: ) but I feel the essential elements of any home page are:

  • An introductory paragraph plus the note that says LEDE is still in flux (that can go away shortly after the release.)
  • A list of "teasers" - reasons to use LEDE, with...
  • A link to the longer "Things you can do with LEDE" page
  • An invitation to have people join the project

Further thoughts:

  • I could live without the Endorsements section.
  • We should use a tone that says we're good, but avoids unsubstantiated claims that "LEDE is best"

How can we arrive at final wording for the home page, so that tmomas can update it (requires an admin...) Thanks.

Well, I keep suggesting things and while some are later incorporated in the pages you and @tmomas create, I never get direct feedback. So we are here:

@stangri - I think people are leaving it up to you and me.

As for direct feedback, I'm worried that the list of attributes for LEDE has become too long on https://lede-project.org/playground/why_use_lede_full_list and that it's missing a couple things that I would like to see on the LEDE Project home page (see my message #67) above.

In turn, I'll ask for your direct feedback about my most recent proposal: https://lede-project.org/playground/start2

We can use these comments to triangulate on final wording. Thanks.

Happy new year! :slight_smile:

What do we have?

  1. TODO: Quality of Service support – not enough technical knowledge to write it up.
  2. TODO: a sentence on uhttpd-mod-ubus.
  3. TODO: link to the page with luci-i18n-base* list for over 20 languages

TODO 1+2: Nothing I can help with -> Who can jump in?
TODO 3: Where is that page? IIRC @bobafetthotmail took out the luci-i18n localizations in the package list.

Regarding the full list:
There's only links in the "Extensibility" section. Can we link to more wikipages?

  • Link to bufferbloat info
  • Link to QoS info
  • Link to command Configuring via line interface
  • Link to Luci / Configuring via Luci
  • Link to image builder

Customization: Which themes are available? Do we have wikipages describing those themes?

Regarding the startpage proposal:

  • bufferbloat control algorithms -> Can we link to some more info about bufferbloat?
  • Performance -> Access a wider range of Dynamic DNS (ddns) providers than stock firmware -> How is this done? Which packages are needed? Is there a How-to page available?

Otherwise I would be happy with this proposal for now.

If you feel that you don't get enough feedback, keep asking.
Priority of issues changes, then there are the xmas and new years holidays, and after all, we are humans which tend to forget things :wink:

One request from my side to @stangri: Some of your past messages left me behind with a slight question mark on my forehead, i.e. I didn't really know if you had further requests or what your request was.
Therefore, if you want to improve your feedback ratio, it could help if you clearly specified what your request is and to whom it is adressed to.

In case you don't get the epected feedback, keep asking :slight_smile:

And if there's still no feedback, just $do_it.
If there is something that someone doesn't like, he can complain about it and discuss any further improvements.

By the way: A key sentence I'm missing in the current https://lede-project.org/playground/start2, but which is included in https://lede-project.org/playground/why_use_lede_full_list

The LEDE Project is a Linux operating system based on OpenWrt

Therefore: Thumbs up for https://lede-project.org/playground/why_use_lede_full_list#what_is_lede

[quote="tmomas, post:71, topic:270, full:true"]TODO 3: Where is that page? IIRC @bobafetthotmail took out the luci-i18n localizations in the package list.[/quote]Currently there isn't a single page, but one page for each package that lists all translations for it (as not all packages are translated in all languages) https://lede-project.org/packages/start?dataflt[Name_pkg-page*~]=luci-i18

If you need a single page, I can dump the info in a table on a single page like I did with the kernel versions. https://lede-project.org/packages/pkgdata/kernel

why_use_lede_full_list is not meant as a replacement for the start page. As we have all agreed the start page should have a compressed and focused message of few most crucial reasons, while there are many other areas where LEDE is superior. I think the full list deserves a separate page (to be linked from start page).

So why_use_lede_full_list -- is the page to list (potentially) all the reasons for LEDE and areas where LEDE is superior. From this full_list page the items can be picked for the start page.

As I'm still not quite clear on how big/complete list of reasons for LEDE you guys want the start page to list, I'll just brush up the wording on your (@richb-hanover) start2 page in the near future.

@bobafetthotmail -- can you help me get the page which would list luci-i18n-base* (and not luci-i18n* like @tmomas has indicated) packages please? Right now https://lede-project.org/packages/start?dataflt[Name_pkg-page*~]=luci-i18-base shows "nothing found" while there're over 20 luci-i18n-base* packages. Also, is there a way to suppress Package Categories cloud on a specific page/link?

[quote="stangri, post:75, topic:270, full:true"]@bobafetthotmail -- can you help me get the page which would list luci-i18n-base* (and not luci-i18n* like @tmomas has indicated) packages please? Right now https://lede-project.org/packages/start?dataflt[Name_pkg-page*~]=luci-i18-base shows "nothing found" while there're over 20 luci-i18n-base* packages.[/quote]Neat, that's not my fault though. :grinning:

To get to their page you need to click on "View Data" link at the end of the line in the table. This is the package you are looking for https://lede-project.org/packages/pkgdata/luci-i18n-base-lang

As said by tmomas, that page is auto-generated stuff and I didn't have a specific layout in mind so it shows as a package (which is probably not good for you), if you want it in a different way I can alter the script to write a wiki page in a different way.

I already proposed the single-page-whith-table like I did for kernel version.

[quote]Also, is there a way to suppress Package Categories cloud on a specific page/link?[/quote]No, but you can have a table wherever you like by adding (this is the source of the datatable page). You can also remove columns (just remember to adjust header and align fields too as they also apply sequentially to the defined columns).

---- datatable ----
cols       : Categoriess, Name_pkg-page, Version-short, Dependencies_pkg-dependencies, Description, LEDE releases_lede-release, File size_pkg-filesize, Installed size_pkg-filesize, License, Maintainer_pkg-maintainer, Bug report_wiki, Source code_wiki, Packagedata_pageid
header     : Categories, Name, Version, Dependencies, Description, LEDE release, File size, Installed size, License, Maintainer, Bug report, Source code, Packagedata
align      : l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,c,c,c
filter     : %class%=packages
max        : 50
dynfilters : 1
rownumbers : 1
sort       : Name

So if the current view is not good for your needs, make a new one in a new wiki page and link to that.

Not sure what you want to achieve...

What I can say:
Currently, clicking an any of the categories on https://lede-project.org/packages/start, will lead you back to the same page, but filtered for the category you just clicked on.

There is however the option to provide a "target" page which will be accessed instead if you click on a category.

It is not possible to provide a target page in the dataclouds that is depending on the category being clicked on.

Or in other words: Clicking on a category will lead you either to the same page or a different page, but this will be the same page for all categories.

@stangri - you're making me question my assumptions. That's always a good thing :slight_smile:

I believe each page should do "one thing well", and therefore be different (orthogonal) from all the other pages of the site. (Where one page seems to duplicate a lot of content from another, it's time to refactor, just like in code.)

I got stuck because I wasn't clear about the difference between the current home page (start2) and the longer showcase page (why_use_lede_full_list)...

I (still) believe the home page should be the "welcome mat" for the LEDE project. The essential elements remain the same. We want to invite new people into the project, and let them know why they should be happy they found the site.

But, you're right - we can shorten the descriptions on the home page, and provide links to the showcase page for the readers who are curious.

I'm willing to take an hour today to tweak up these two page (home/showcase) to see if this makes sense to you. Thanks.

Absolutely, 100% on board. I've had a different vision on how much (more) compact the "why use lede" section on the start page should be, so decided to focus on a longer stand-alone page from which you guys can pick what you deem the most important reasons (and however many of them).

I'll try to beat you to it by brushing up start2 wording.

Good. I started to work on the Showcase page, with the intent that the "Why Use LEDE" bullets on the start2/home page could point to those major headings.