LEDE Showcase page

I've been reflecting on a few subjects mentioned in the forums -- who uses LEDE and who is LEDE for, as well as a separate subject on expanding exposure for LEDE packages and I came with the idea of LEDE Showcase.

As most of people don't think in terms of packages, but in terms of outcomes, it would be a great benefit to provide a manually written (once tho) page which would showcase benefits of using LEDE, but not in terms "it does openvpn" but in terms of:

  • Allow secure access to home network while away
  • Secure your connection to the outside world

Things like guest wifi network, adblocking, time-based WiFi and/or parental controls and other things which would appeal to broad audiences should be showcased.

Each of these should have short description (think elevator pitch), link to the appropriate recipe, as well as some basic information on pre-requisites (hardware, as well as user skills).

PS. Ideally, there should be packages with luci-based companions for most basic things (for example why Guest WiFi can't be turned into a package easy to set up thru Luci?) -- for those who can't/don't want to use CLI. And speaking of openvpn, LEDE should encourage commercial VPN providers to maintain their specific packages, only requiring minimal user input (think login/password).

I hate to be "that guy" but I think it is good to state this:
I think it is necessary to focus the brainstorming on what you/others-like-you can do for LEDE than on what would be good to have in general, because good ideas are sure good, but opensource projects live off contributions.

@stangri I think this is a great idea, and I concur with @bobafetthotmail that you should take a stab at writing this.

It belongs on the wiki home page. I propose its heading should be something like, "Why should I use LEDE?" and that it appear above the "LEDE Wants You" section.

List the important bullet points that you care about. I think we should have a one-two sentence description with "More..." as a link to a detail page. e.g.,

  • Allow secure access to home network while away More...
  • ... etc...

Don't think too hard. Just write up 3 (or 5, or more) bullet points that make LEDE important for you. Post 'em here, and others can chime in. Once we have a decent "elevator pitch", we will add them to the home page. Thanks!

[quote="richb-hanover, post:3, topic:270, full:true"]Don't think too hard. Just write up 3 (or 5, or more) bullet points that make LEDE important for you. Post 'em here, and others can chime in. Once we have a decent "elevator pitch", we will add them to the home page. Thanks![/quote]This.

Also it will be a good idea to list what "most basic things" need a luci interfaces, or other minor but annoying lack of something, so it can be added to a "newbie contributor's jobs list" page for those that want to get their feet wet in LEDE development and need some ideas.

Thank you for the feedback. I was reluctant to edit the wiki start page of course until things are clean, so let's brainstorm here like @richb-hanover has suggested.

Why use LEDE?
LEDE is customizable with thousands of packages, here are some popular scenarios:

  • Run ad blocking on your router so all connected devices can enjoy clean uncluttered web [Link to the How to on installing adblock/luci-app-adblock]
  • Allow secure access to your home network when away [Link to the How to on OpenVPN server]
  • Secure your internet access and prevent your ISP from snooping on your (requires third party service) [Link to the How to on OpenVPN client]
  • Prevent your ISP from messing up or snooping on your DNS requests [Link to the How to on dnscrypt-proxy]
  • Ensure connected devices with hard-coded DNS servers use your router's DNS [Link to the How to on DNS requests hijacking]
  • Create a Guest WiFi network allowing access to internet, but not your local devices [Link to the How to on Guest WiFi]
  • Create the "children" WiFi network with time limits and parental controls [Link to the How to on time limits and parental controls]

These are the scenarios that I personally use or can think of, but I'm hoping others can pitch in. There's nothing really ground-breaking here, but the goal is to describe NOT the packages here, but the outcomes and scenarios for end-users.

Now, for the "small annoyances". I'm guessing for most of the current OpenWrt/LEDE users writing a small shell script and/or setting things up thru ssh/uci is not a big deal or might actually be preferable. However I'm sure that some recipes can be turned into packages with corresponding luci-apps for the novice users, like:

  1. Guest WiFi; many new/expensive routers have this feature and by flashing LEDE users can lose it, so there needs to be a simple package which brings it back with the luci app to set things up.
  2. Parental controls and/or time-limited children WiFi.
  3. Probably DNS hijacking, I'm not sure about this one tho, as if you understand that you need DNS hijacking you can probably manually put two lines into your /etc/firewall.user
  4. Once at least those things are there, would be great to have ready packages for at least some of the commercial VPN providers. Ideally there should be a template with instructions for them on how to customize it to their needs and submit the resulting package files to LEDE or of they make contribution to the LEDE project a volunteer can do that for them. This should probably be a subject of a separate thread tho and it's probably premature to talk about it now.

I'd like to commend Dirk for his adblocking and now travelmate, as well as Hannu for writing the corresponding luci apps -- both were things which required some custom scripting before, but now can be achieved by any new user. These gentlemen are the inspiration for this topic.

I'll add to the "small annoyances" the fact that current Image Builder works only in linux 64bit, so people on windows/mac need to use a Virtualbox with Ubuntu and use terminal to make a custom firmware image with their packages already burned in (this matters for many devices without expansion capabilities, as packages you integrate go in a squashfs, a highly compressed read-only partition, and you can fit like twice as many things in the same space).

I was thinking about using the LEDE virtualbox image + a new luci application to control the Image Builder and serve the built firmware images to the user through the web interface.

Currently LEDE build system can create Virtualbox images but the issue there is that default network settings of that image are plain wrong and my VMs don't connect to the internet (nor to the host) so you need to change network settings manually with a US keyboard from the VM's "screen" (a terminal) or set up serial redirection guest-host in Virtualbox first.

I've also seen on the "compile your own OpenWRT" page that the Windows 10's linux compatiblity layer (also called "Ubuntu on Windows") seems to work for compilation, it might be a good idea to test if the Image Builder can be used with that too.

[quote="stangri, post:5, topic:270, full:true"]4. Once at least those things are there, would be great to have ready packages for at least some of the commercial VPN providers.[/quote]no wait a sec, aren't many half-decent commercial VPN providers using VPN servers we have already clients for (OpenVPN or whatever)?

I might be a paranoid, but I'm not terribly inclined to trust a proprietary VPN client. Also, hoping the VPN provider would provide binaries for all router archs we have (like 20 or so, maybe with more generic build options it can go down to 3-4) is a bit wishful thinking.

For VPN providers we have a client for already, you can pretty much clone luci-app-ddns and add a few fields for additional options maybe.

I never mentioned proprietary clients. When I mentioned "packages" for commercial VPN providers, what I had in mind is packaging required certificates and either uci-ing settings or dropping the renamed ovpn file where it needs to be and providing a Web UI to enter credentials for OpenVPN.

To me it sounds like there should be a new JOB description.

There are DEVS,
there are USERS,

CONFS (configurators) the new set of people who configure the packages in various NEW ways

On security:
It would be nice to see TOR as package.
Not just as having a TOR gateway for surfing in the TOR domain.

But more as offering Hidden services for IoT sensor stuff and other IoT things.
IoT is under fire by 'stupid' politicians who slander IoT for not being secure.
(We all know how politicians making the net LESS secure with their policies)
SO
Is it possible to add security by default? And make something like TOR a DEFAULT SECURITY FEATURE (Mind the CAPS) :slight_smile:

I'm more TOR minded since i find VPN a bit prone to corruption.
It's comparable with paying mobsters for 'protection money'
And TOR is not depending on that kind of scheme.
Not sure if I2P is also an option?

I understand that the DEVS would like to see all of us become DEVS, but thats not diversity...
To have more diversity that also brings in more diverse people with more diverse wishes, who in turn will also bring in more diverse DEVS? I think so... This will take some time, but then the DEVS will have more DEVS on their team, but the whole project will gain diversity.

Ok so much for my Utopian LEDE vision. :smiley:

I think we all just want to do what we are good at, not just do what others expect from us.
I'm no DEV, i wish i could bring my brain to do DEV stuff. Lets not torture non DEV brains, lets explore the CONF brain?

What kind of non DEV people doe we have? What are those people good at? How can they use their special talents to make LEDE greater?

Brainstorming does not hurt DEVS. Even stupid ideas have value in pointing out that something just sucks. But it's the good idea's that open exiting new doors.
IoT is on our doorstep. Oops WRONG! Routers are all IoT things. But this will get ever more crazy.
And without good security the politicians will keep doing their shit to "our work" The work of our DEVS.
And that sucks. We need to think ahead, and brain our way to the future.

@stangri Good job listing LEDE's strong points (above). I propose the following for a "Why Use LEDE?" section on the www.lede-project.org home page. I would place this text immediately above "LEDE Wants You!"

Comments, please...


Why Use LEDE?

  • LEDE provides a stable, robust, secure, and high performance firmware for home routers and embedded devices. With LEDE, you won't have to worry about rebooting your router frequently, errors in the router code, security flaws, or poor performance.
  • LEDE firmware is a complete replacement for stock home router firmware. You get all the benefits above by installing LEDE.
  • LEDE is built on industry-standard and well-tested open source code. Consequently, it is immune to the majority of attacks that are publicized in the press on a regular basis.
  • LEDE also offers a broad set of add-on packages that provide:
  • Ad-blocking to avoid the worst of popups and annoying web images
  • VPN services, to allow secure access to your home network while you're away
  • Secure access to remote services to avoid snooping on your traffic while you're browsing from home.
  • Guest Wi-Fi networks, that are firewalled from private/business/family networks
  • Time limits & parental controls for selected devices
  • And many other capabilities.
  • LEDE is open source software (GPLv2), so you can install it on your router/device at no cost
  • LEDE is built and supported by a vibrant team of volunteers who ensure its success by using it themselves, and helping others succeed.

Update: If I don't hear back by Sunday evening, I'll post this to the www site. We can continue to edit it there.

[quote="richb-hanover, post:9, topic:270, full:true"]Comments, please...[/quote]I would tone a bit down the company-grade ad speech, I find that annoying. I think a modern company/project should be a bit more personal and talk to people in a simpler and more friendly way, explain more than state superlatives.
To say it in company-grade ad speech: "LEDE is made of people like you". :slight_smile:

rearranging the text (I know that reality isn't as good as I make it look like in there):

Why Use LEDE?

LEDE is more stable, offers more features, is more secure and has better support than the stock firmwares of most embedded devices we support.

  • Stable: a LEDE firmware is made of standardized modules used in all supported devices, therefore the amount of testing and bug fixing each module receives is far superior than any commercial product's stock firmware where many software components are tweaked for each product line (and never touched again).

  • Features: LEDE provides advanced functionality found only in high-end devices, and then some, with more than 3000 application packages ready to be installed. All advanced features are standardized, you will be able to easily replicate the same setup on any supported device.

  • Security: LEDE's software components are kept up-to-date and and any vulnerability is closed by updates offered shortly after it is discovered. LEDE is immune to exploits that still plague most commercial products, that use (very) outdated software and don't really update anything after a few years.

  • Support: In LEDE's forums, IRC and mailing lists you can interact directly with developers, volunteers managing the software modules and with other long-time LEDE users, drastically increasing the chances you will solve the issue at hand.

  • No additional cost: LEDE is provided free of any monetary cost thanks to the effort of volunteer contributors (both individuals and companies). If you find it great consider helping us keeping it great for others too!

  • Open Source: All of the above points are possible because LEDE is part of the Open Source community, and powered by Linux kernel. In case you were wondering, the penguin in the logo is Tux, Linux's mascotte/symbol.

...........................

note that I know I'm not placing the monetary cost and Open Source in the first sentence.
People should use LEDE because it is better than stock firmware, not because it is free (as stock firmware is also "free" if you buy the hardware).
Also Open Source is cool but is just a "it does not cost money" for most people.

I'm unsure about placing this in the list above. Would be cool to place only features that work and have a luci user interface, otherwise it's kinda a lie.

This may be part of a broader discussion about our audience, but I think a major obligation of the home page is to explain, quite clearly, what LEDE is, and give powerful reasons that people might care about it. [Note, I'm not entirely happy with my proposal in #9 above...]

The writing on the current home page is dry to the point of being abstract. It talks about a "meta-distribution", spinning away from a mother project, and governance models, but fails to mention that it'll solve your bufferbloat and eliminate lockups that require reboots.

[Only slightly OT: I was trained as an engineer/software developer, but once upon a time, I took a sales course. The major useful lesson was that people buy stuff (or in LEDE's case, install the firmware) because they have pain. If someone breaks their leg, they'll do just about anything to stop the pain. If it's killing you not to have that red Miata, then "all you have to do" is give up some money to make that pain go away. If I have to reboot my router twice a week... jeez, I wish there were a way to make that problem go away.]

I assert that it's the job of the LEDE home page to point out to newcomers the common problems that are pain points for people, and talk about how LEDE solves them. (I think of these as the "benefits" of using LEDE.)

A couple examples:

  • "Stable" doesn't really tell a reader much. "Lack of stability" is a problem, but most newcomers won't recognize it by that name. "Rebooting the router a couple times a week" - now that's something that I recognize (and hate, and wish would go away.) Saying that most people never need to reboot a LEDE router shows a real benefit.
  • "High performance" - every manufacturer touts high performance, so it doesn't mean anything, nor is it a problem. Lagging out - now that's a problem. And if LEDE can stop lagging out, I'm all for it.
  • "Features" - again, not a benefit that anyone would understand. But calling out the specific benefit that flows from a feature (e.g., Secure your traffic against snooping (a benefit) comes from the VPN "feature"; separating Guest from home/office Wi-Fi is a benefit that comes from an easy-to-configure firewall feature; etc.)
  • "It's fun!" - for the people reading this forum, that's a definite benefit. But for most people who just want a good router at home, this does not sound anything like fun. So I would be tempted not to list this as a benefit.
  • Open Source. Yawn. So it's free... Again, except for the price, not a benefit.

There's no shame in vivid writing, especially if it keeps newcomers reading to the point that they recognize that they experience the kinds of problems LEDE can fix.

I think our challenge is to come up with a (short-ish) list of compelling benefits that LEDE provides, and talk them up in a lively way on the home page. Anyone want to come up with one or two?

PS I think these benefits can be "aspirational". That is, even if LEDE doesn't offer a benefit today (because that package is crashing this week, or perhaps hasn't even been integrated yet), we can write the home page with the same sense of "knowing it's gonna happen", just as we write about offering a stable version for LEDE. Not this month, but soon.

Ah, I could tell we're kindred spirits. :wink:

  • LEDE contains no hidden backdoors or bugs left by hardware vendors -- thanks to LEDE being an open source project with many developers from all over the world reviewing and writing the code.
  • LEDE is extendable -- unlike the vendor-supplied firmware for your router which is limited to the features provided (similar to the feature-phones), LEDE allows you to add additional features by installing packages (similar to installing apps on the smart phones). Some of the most popular additional features are listed at LEDE Showcase page.
  • LEDE prolongs the life of your router -- while vendors are known to only provide updates for your router until the newer model is released, LEDE strives to support all models with the feature and security updates for extended periods of time [would be great to either add some stats on that here or explain in once sentence that flash/rom are the only limiting factors].

We are aiming at different targets. I'm aiming at power users and linux users, you are aiming lower than that, to more common (windows/apple) users.

Both are legal targets, issue is that we need to make something that isn't insulting for power users while being easy enough to comprehend for common users.

(I personally don't think many common users will actually know what a "firmware" is nor care of most of LEDE's points, if they get a crappy/unstable device they are just buying another from a different brand. Hence why I'm not targeting them)

[quote="richb-hanover, post:11, topic:270, full:true"]* "Stable" doesn't really tell a reader much. "Lack of stability" is a problem, but most newcomers won't recognize it by that name. "Rebooting the router a couple times a week" - now that's something that I recognize (and hate, and wish would go away.) Saying that most people never need to reboot a LEDE router shows a real benefit.[/quote]Ok for a more dow-to-earth explanantion, but I've never encountered large quantities of routers that needed to be rebooted frequently to workaround issues, so that claim might be seen as lying about competitors, which is usually bad practice because reasons.
If you find something that rings true and is also easy to understand, I'm ok with adding it.

[quote]* "High performance" - every manufacturer touts high performance, so it doesn't mean anything, nor is it a problem. Lagging out - now that's a problem. And if LEDE can stop lagging out, I'm all for it.[/quote]As-is, LEDE isn't performing significantly better than commercial products for common users (for many it even goes worse, because open drivers are less performing than closed ones or some features are unsupported), so I'd say this will again look like a lie.

Don't take me wrong, but if you tote "higher performance" people will expect faster Internet or better wifi coverage, and this isn't usually offered by LEDE (for Atheros chips it's getting better when they merge the patches of the "make wifi fast" team, but again that's not something a common user is likely to notice).

[quote]* "Features" - again, not a benefit that anyone would understand. But calling out the specific benefit that flows from a feature (e.g., Secure your traffic against snooping (a benefit) comes from the VPN "feature"; separating Guest from home/office Wi-Fi is a benefit that comes from an easy-to-configure firewall feature; etc.)[/quote]That's fine to add examples to explain, as long as it is stuff with a working luci-app, and as such is usable by the target of your statements.
You probably have missed that the points above were "cool stuff we can do from command line but there is no luci-app for them yet".

[quote]* "It's fun!" - for the people reading this forum, that's a definite benefit. But for most people who just want a good router at home, this does not sound anything like fun. So I would be tempted not to list this as a benefit.[/quote]I never placed a "fun" anywhere. Running LEDE isn't "fun", embedded devices are infrastructure for people's lives. You notice of infrastructure only when it does not blend in or breaks.

[quote]* Open Source. Yawn. So it's free... Again, except for the price, not a benefit.[/quote]As said above, I'm stating that "All of the above points are possible because LEDE is part of the Open Source community".
I'm doing what I can to show that Open Source isn't just "free", but a prerequisite for the above points.

[quote]PS I think these benefits can be "aspirational". That is, even if LEDE doesn't offer a benefit today (because that package is crashing this week, or perhaps hasn't even been integrated yet), we can write the home page with the same sense of "knowing it's gonna happen", just as we write about offering a stable version for LEDE. Not this month, but soon.
[/quote]Ok but let's not go overboard with wisful thinking. See above, you risk writing things that will be seen as lies and shooting yourself in the foot.

Flexibility / Versatility in stead of features. Other systems have many features but to me it's not really about the features but more about the versatile way these little machines can be put to use

We should aim to educate/help people who know less than we do rather than ignore/exclude them.

We should aim to educate/help people who know less than we do rather than ignore/exclude them.

not targeting them is not excluding them. The project has very little manpower,
it can't do everything. If it's easy/cheap to provide support, it makes sense to
do so. If it hurts the common case or is a bunch of work, we should let it go
until someone steps up to do the work.

David Lang

[quote="stangri, post:15, topic:270, full:true"]We should aim to educate/help people who know less than we do rather than ignore/exclude them.[/quote]Only if they are genuinely interested. Makes no sense to target people not insterested in LEDE as their solution to all mentioned problems is "buy another device" or don't need the features.

OK. Lots of good discussion: I'm going to "call the question."

The home page still doesn't say, "Why You Should Use LEDE?" Does anyone want to post a first cut to address the question? Thanks.

So what, what I posted is not good enough? Did it get lost in all the trolling?

I posted mine already, I need to integrate a bit the feedback I received maybe, and the points posted by stangri that are interesting for other LEDE potential targets.