I live in the UK, my ISP is EE and unfortunately I am not an expert on the topics which follow.
The modem/router which EE is providing me is the EE Smart Hub Plus and my broadband is fibre to the cabinet.
This means that for the Internet connection I need to plug a cable from a phone socket in the wall into a corresponding socket on the back of the EE Smart Hub Plus which is labelled "Broadband": please see this short video https://youtu.be/ATOrSQUo8LA
Does anyone know if there is a modem/router compatible with the above EE third-party routers settings (and with OpenWRT, see below) which will allow me to avoid using the EE Smart Hub Plus altogether while keeping EE as my ISP?
I'd like to have OpenWRT so to be able to use the services of my NordVPN account directly from the modem/router.
By chance I got to know about FlashRouters (https://www.flashrouters.com/) and, among the many products the sell, they are selling some GL.iNet routers with OpenWRT and preconfigured for NordVPN (like the Flint 2) which look good to me.
So I asked them if they are selling also modem/routers and they told me they sell only routers and not modem/routers.
Exactly the same answer I got by asking the same question directly to GL.iNet.
UK here so I have some insight for you. There are 3 paths you could go but don't worry, yes you can have OpenWRT and keep EE as your ISP without having to have the Smart Hub Plus:
1: Get a preflashed BTHH5A/Plusnet Hub from Ebay. This gives you the flexibility of being able to just bridge it (modem mode) to your own router (Smart Hub Plus can't do this) or just having it as an all in one unit doing the modem, router and wireless access point. Since you have FTTC it might be able to handle all that but it is quite slow for todays standards. Would be fine as just passthrough as a modem though.
If you want more information on the VPN capabilities, please see page 202 of the guide here.
"An increasing number of VPN providers are now experimenting with the wireguard vpn protocol. They include Nordvpn,VPN Unlimited, and Mullvad. I’ve tested wireguard on a HH5A, and I’ve seen speed tests return 36 - 40 mbps"
I don't know if this is something you can do with NordVPN or if 35 mbps is too slow for your connection.
2: If you don't want to dabble into setting up modem only mode via OpenWRT you could look at getting a BT Business Smart Hub 2 on Ebay. On that you can switch them to modem only (bridge mode) on factory stock firmware. Only reason I don't like that approach is they have been really sneaky and on stock firmware they have a setting where people are able to connect to an open wifi network (Since it's meant for businesses). I would probably still recommend point 1 since you can get a Plusnet Hub One preflashed for like £25 and you will have complete control unlike the business hub.
3: Get a HG612 Openreach modem and then connect it to whatever OpenWRT router you want that packs enough punch to do NordVPN at required speeds. These modems are quite old though but should be fine.
As for steps once you have connected the modem to the OpenWRT router you go to Network tab > Interfaces. Click edit on the WAN and click switch protocol from DHCP to PPPoE. Input username at bthomehub@btbroadband.com with a password of bt and it should automatically connect after you apply changes.
As mentioned, I am not an expert and so I might be completely missing some very relevant info to fully understand things.
In some of your points (all of them?) I understood you suggest to have a "modem" and then a router; so two distinct pieces of hardware.
Aren't there any possibilities of having a single piece of hardware (modem/router) which will allow me to use OpenWRT features which will, on their turn, allow me to use NordVPN services from the modem/router?
In my native country (Italy) I never used a modem/router of an ISP; I have always used a modem/router of my own choice (one single piece of hardware) but, importantly for this thread, I never thought of using OpenWRT and NordVPN from those modem/routers.
For UK I know that I can use a modem plus an OpenWRT router and I was just wondering whether there are also OpenWRT modem/routers as one single piece of hardware.
If not, it would be useful to know why.
Generally people prefer a modem and a router separate because it is easy to change out the router and not have the sync between the modem and exchange go down. If you have a unit which has a modem and router in one and switch it off for any reason, the exchange where you are connected to might think there is a problem on the line and they will limit speeds of your connection. People also just like a modular approach to having hardware that does one job.
Point 1 in my previous post would actually be a modem and router combined, the Plusnet Hub One e.g. on Ebay here.
With that you would not need any other hardware to get online since it includes both the modem and router in one. You can also configure NordVPN on it.
The bthub5a is a nice device, but it's showing its age by now - and does only support vectoring, not super-vectoring (WAN speeds above ~100 MBit/s). The combination of dedicated VDSL2+super-vectoring modem and a wifi6 router makes more sense (faster CPU, more RAM, WLAN more than twice as fast).
I agree in principle, but I believe (but am not 100% sure) in the UK profile 35b (what Deutsche Telekom marketing folks call SuperVectoring) is not used by any ISP... so a BTHH5A likely is still decent enough when used as bridged modem... (these should be easy to come by in the UK).
Personally I changed from a BTHH5A to a profile 35b-capable fritzbox 7520 (running under OpenWrt as bridged modem ) and do not regret that.
Please note that with a bridged modem the modem will not handle SIP/VoIP telephony any more so unless your ISP still uses analog telephony or you you do not used fixed-line telephony at all you likely will need to look into getting a dedicated SIP base station.
For a good price, it's at least a nice fallback option - be it as full backup or to be used as (bridged-) VDSL modem (if super-vectoring really isn't a concern).
Hello all (gameinn, slh and moeller0),
thanks for your feedback!
Being a non-expert I am still quite confused on if it's possible to avoid using the EE Smart Hub Plus altogether (while keeping EE as my ISP) by using only a third-party modem/router which is not too old and which has OpenWRT for letting me access NordVPN services:
- Years ago in Italy (again: no OpenWRT in my head at that time) I bought this modem/router https://www.netgear.com/support/product/d6400/ which was new at the time, I set it as indicated by the Italian ISP (something similar to https://ee.co.uk/help/broadband/getting-started/using-and-configuring-a-third-party-router considering the different time and connection technology) and then I was ready to go. So I was asking myself if something similar could be possible (now in the UK with EE as the ISP) with only a new third-party modem/router (possibly not coming from a UK ISP, just like my example of Netgear) which supports OpenWRT. Any other options on top of the ones already indicated? Maybe there are no other options.
- A dedicated SIP base station for EE’s Digital Home Phone service (alternative to the one embedded into the EE Smart Hub Plus): I would be interested in having some practical examples of alternative hardware and corresponding settings/connections. But the main aim for me is to find out if it's possible to have an alternative modem/router (one single hardware item) which will allow me to avoid using the EE Smart Hub Plus altogether and also access NordVPN services from the modem/router via OpenWRT.
- In case of a bridged modem I could already use the EE Smart Hub Plus (this configuration could maybe also handle EE’s Digital Home Phone service but I have no idea if switching the EE Smart Hub Plus to "modem only" is an option) plus a router from FlashRouters which I understood will come ready-to-use with respect to OpenWRT/NordVPN.
I believe the answer to be yes, but I guess @bill888 might know, IIRC he is the resident expert on OpenWrt on HH5A and derivatives in the UK.
Oh, personally I use an old gigaset C610A IP, but this is really EOL by now and I have no clue whether it would work for EE. A lok of users seem to use AVM Fritzbox as dedicated SIP basestations to some success. I would guess that if people manage to replace the EE all-in-one router with a Fritzbox then it is likely (but not guaranteed) that the fritzbox could to the SIP basestation duty as well.
Typically in bridged modem mode the modem will not terminate IP telephony... so unless telephony is still old school analog telephony that is separated from the DSL signal via a small splitter (or you need to use a small DSL filter in front of telephones) the EE's phone base functionality will not be of any use, but in the case of analog telephone the EE station really does not do much anyway except maybe act as dect base station, but I really am speculating wildly here.... so take what I wrote with a pinch of salt...
Just to add, with VPN services intended to terminate on the router (as well), the bthub5a is out of its league (it can still be used only as bridged VDSL2 modem, but it's already with its back to the wall with routing ~100 MBit/s, VPN on top is too much for it).
fwiw, if you subscribe to EE’s Digital Home Phone service, you must use their smart hub for voip. BT/EE do not allow use of 3rd party voip ATA with their phone service.
If the EE hub did support modem only mode, the Digital Home phone will NOT function if it is anything like BT Smart Hub 2. ie. The EE Digital Home phone requires EE hub to be operating in normal router mode.
I don't know whether the new EE smart hub supports DSL modem mode. The BT Business smart hub 2 and Plusnet Hub Two offer 'modem mode'. Other routers such as TPlink TD-W9970 offer modem mode too.
Other than HH5a, I'm not aware of any other readily available Lantiq based wifi router which supports OpenWrt and VDSL2. I believe some Fritzboxes are sold in the UK. The HH5a will struggle to achieve 76 mbps over wifi on Openreach 80/20 mbps FTTC imho when operating in openwrt modem wifi router mode. If you have FTTC speedtests of less than 60 mbps, then the old HH5a will be fine imho.
As already suggested by @gameinn , I would personally choose the two box solution of a separate VDSL modem (eg. Plusnet Hub Two, TD-W9970 etc), and any 3rd party router of your choice capable of running Openwrt. Please note there is no support for EE Digital phone service.
Running a VPN client on the openwrt router introduces more issues as highlighted by @slh
A far simpler option is just keep EE smart hub as it is, and simply install an openwrt router (for vpn) and connect it to the EE hub's LAN. Devices which don't need vpn can use the EE hub. Devices which do require VPN can use the openwrt vpn client router.
Please note some websites may also block use of VPNs if detected.
This is likely correct. However EE is unlikely to work with anything but a bog-standard commercial SIP/VoIP system, so there might be ways to reverse engineer one self into their SIP service (or not depending how they nail shut every possible entry point). But that likely is not a stable solution... has anybody tried to convince the national regulatory agency that there should be terminal decvice freedom for telephony as well?
Yeah if they don't give you the password for the voip the amount of hassle to only maybe get it probably wouldn't be worth it, especially if you factor in that if you used a hh5a or a fritzbox 7520 / 7530, or some other modem in bridge mode you would have been buying separate voip hardware anyway. By the time you factor all this in imho you either cancel the voip or just keep everything the same but add a new router.
Ah, if you can selectively cancel only the VoIP and get telephony from a separate SIP provider that seems like a decent choice. Over here almost no ISP offers plans without VoIP/SIP but they are generally willing to give out the required credentials (a willingness that they came to realise they had in them after the regulatory agency took the position that VoIP falls under freedom to choice terminal devices...)
That is a matter of perception and your own policies.
For me, it was worth it to provide my own router (terminating the wan connection) and my own VoIP gear (an entry level AVM Fritz!Box in my case (used exclusively for its phone features, modem, routing, wireless disabled), locked into its own network/ VLAN) behind the (ISP provided) ONT (legally speaking, I would be allowed to get my own, but the ISP isn't that cooperative here - and that wouldn't gain me anything anyways, it behaves just like a stupid/ transparent 'modem'). I would not like to depend on an ISP branded router (stability, bufferbloat, limited configuration options, double/triple-NAT), as well as a 'decent' VoIP base, capable to handle my devices (to be fair, I'd like a slight step up from my current solution, but that's not really available). That said, my ISP has provided me with all required access credentials (and is required to do so by law anyways).
My chosen VoIP gear can handle:
VoIP/ SIP pbx for up to 10 external phone numbers
SIP ATA with 1 analogue FXS port --> fax machine
answering machine
integrated fax features (send & receive)
up to 6 DECT cat-iq 2.x compatible handsets
up to 10 internal SIP phone numbers/ accounts, for up to 10 SIP (desk-) phones/ channels
and this is actually the part I would like to see improvements on, no I'm not actually using ten SIP desk phone, but you quickly hit the maximum when juggling with multiple external (10) phone numbers and your SIP phones supporting multiple (2, 3, 6, 8, 16) lines/ channels at once, which quickly drive you to the limit (especially with 2+ SIP phones in the game)
ISP provided all-in-one devices rarely meet these requirements.
Hello,
thanks once more to all (bill888 and wilsonyan included): really tough for me to understand the technicalities and try to translate those in concrete action points; anyways it's worth trying (though it might take some time).
In the meantime, if I understood correctly what bill888 and others pointed to, I could try using the EE Smart Hub Plus (so the digital calls should be supported) with a FlashRouter connected to it.
For access with VPN I could use the FlashRouter (from both its wifi and ethernet ports), while for access without the VPN I could use the EE Smart Hub Plus (from both its wifi and ethernet ports).
It would be good to know if anyone thinks something might be really not OK in this eventual configuration.
A VDSL modem/router like this one https://www.tp-link.com/uk/support/download/archer-vr2100/ (TP-Link Archer VR2100 AC2100) seems compatible with the EE third party router configuration details I posted above (please let me know if, instead, this is not the case).
Can a VDSL modem/router like the TP-Link Archer VR2100 AC2100 have OpenWRT on it?
If not what are the reasons?
In theory yes, in practice the vr2100 is currently not supported by OpenWrt.
Unclear, I can not even find information about the VR2100's SoC, so it might well be that this is a broadcom based device, and OpenWrt has no real support fir modern broadcom WiFi or DSL, but again, I do not even konw whether the vr2100 is broadcom based to begin with.
Really the currelntly supported DSL modems are either really really old (danube?) or use eith the really old lantiq xrx200 or the somewhat less old lantiq vrx518, these seem to be the only dsl modems that are supported, and not all devices using these modems will be supported by OpenWrt.
Recently I was (again) looking around online and in physical shops for modems/routers easily available and I was wondering once more if none of those which I saw would be OK for my situation (situation which was outlined in this thread).
Well, in that case maybe this forum is not the best place to discuss them, given its primary focus on OpenWrt? Personally, I lack any relevant experience with EE and hence can only offer vague and unspecific platitudes so unless you have specific questions for me to answer I think I should rather not ramble on.
) and do not regret that.